Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

[MisterNublet]

Everyone who plays pays SE money every month, that’s enough to feel „entitled” to be able to use all the content they add to the game

Funny thing is, you ARE entitled to the content. You join PF or a static and engage in the content. You choosing not too for whatever reason is a fault of your own, not anyone else's. Not SE's, and not the "non-casual" playerbase.

it should at least be tradeable on the market board (which would be a win-win scenario for everyone).

Absolutely not. They are rewards for completing the content and are "bragging" rights. Allowing rewards to be placed on the market board diminishes the value. The value being something you all have placed on the rewards is the sole reason why ya'll seem so butthurt that you don't have access to because you all refuse to engage in the content.

Also it’s funny to see hardcore raiders complaining about casuals acting as if they are „entitled” to rewards, considering how they themselves reacted when SE decided to put mounts like Shadow Wolf and Cruise Chaser in the online store instead of locking them behind endgame raiding.

The irony of this statement, trying to take away the perks from harder content and putting it in normal content.

When it comes to repeating content, there’s literally no point in repeating newest alliance raid right now due to the one item per week mechanic which makes foam grinding impossible.

And savage content has weekly lockouts too. "Foam"? People still run Nier for the glams. Y'all laughable.

[CidHeiral]

There's also the matter that most hardcore players don't WANT casuals "getting good" at the content at all, there isn't some major outreach and up-lifting program going on here, quite the opposite actually as we literally just saw with Chaotic.

But it's still really telling that these are exceptions and not the norm, or how in my case at least, it's not "WAHH I'M TOO LAZY, MAIL ME THE REWARDS" like someone like Volgia no doubt thinks of all casual players, but rather it's "I really don't think I'm good enough for this or can be, and there's not much to prove otherwise" when there's been hardcore players coming in here and similar topics who see someone struggling and their first response is "fuck off and leave then, more for me" as if Final Fantasy 14 was some kind of pie they're scared of not getting a slice of, despite already getting the lion's share this expansion.

Still get spat in the face for my consideration though, still get accused of being "entitled" too. In that regards, it creates this sentiment that I and others wouldn't want to play with most hardcore players either because frankly, most of them are complete assholes and proudly flaunt that fact.

Painting an entire group of people with the same brush based on a few forum trolls isn't any different than what you're accusing them of doing to casual players. Your last several posts in this thread have been extreme exaggerations or total fabrications and you've ignored posts pointing out where you haven't been truthful. You're creating an imaginary hardcore player boogeyman as an excuse to not venture outside of the tiny box you've put yourself in so you feel better about your self-admitted insecurities and fear of failure. If you worked on yourself instead of blaming everyone else for your woes you'd probably have a much more enjoyable time with the game.

[Lilapop]

Painting an entire group of people with the same brush based on a few forum trolls isn't any different than what you're accusing them of doing to casual players. Your last several posts in this thread have been extreme exaggerations or total fabrications and you've ignored posts pointing out where you haven't been truthful. You're creating an imaginary hardcore player boogeyman as an excuse to not venture outside of the tiny box you've put yourself in so you feel better about your self-admitted insecurities and fear of failure. If you worked on yourself instead of blaming everyone else for your woes you'd probably have a much more enjoyable time with the game.

It isn't just "a few forum trolls" telling people to get good or get lost, though.

[DPZ2]

So the proper term would be a boycott, then. So #HEALERBOYCOTT, got it

Boycott in this case would have to be withholding money for subscriptions.

Strike, as in the recent so-called "healer strike" was supposed to be not queuing up for the Healer role.

Use Boycott when You are Withholding Money. Use Strike when You are Withholding Labor.

[AntoniusQuil]

Funny thing is, you ARE entitled to the content. You join PF or a static and engage in the content. You choosing not too for whatever reason is a fault of your own, not anyone else's. Not SE's, and not the "non-casual" playerbase.



Absolutely not. They are rewards for completing the content and are "bragging" rights. Allowing rewards to be placed on the market board diminishes the value. The value being something you all have placed on the rewards is the sole reason why ya'll seem so butthurt that you don't have access to because you all refuse to engage in the content.



The irony of this statement, trying to take away the perks from harder content and putting it in normal content.



And savage content has weekly lockouts too. "Foam"? People still run Nier for the glams. Y'all laughable.

1. Here shows the difference in player mentality, I don’t care about “bragging rights” of X item and its imaginary value when deciding to get it, I only care if it has nice glam potential or if the mount looks fun, the amount of players who have it too doesn’t matter for me at all. If someone really wants to brag so much about their in game achievements, titles and ultimate weapons should be enough for them

2. “Taking away content”? But I thought that there’s no content being locked from anyone and forcing people to do stuff they really don’t want to do for it is good?

3. The discussion in this thread is about DT content, Nier content is two expansions old and newest chaotic alliance raid doesn’t have item lockout

[AntoniusQuil]

It's hardly imaginary, given that this sort of divide has apparently been around long before I started playing, it was just very good about hiding because I waltzed into this game thinking it WASN'T going to be same song and dance as every other MMO I've played, especially when people openly spoke of its community like it was a FEATURE that it was "totally different" from the rest. And that tiny box wasn't entirely of my own making between being on a dead data center, and then being forced play with other people on other data centers where it was a coin flip if they could tolerate my presence (and would vocalize if they didn't, ToS be damned) which has helped to create this impression that even if I DID overcome said insecurities and fear of failure, the hardcore community at large doesn't seem worth engaging with because so much of it is hostile on the forums, on Reddit, on Twitter, in Discords, and even IN-GAME and the only thing Chaotic did was let them go off completely about "what they really think" now that they've gotten it into their heads that they're the company & developers favorites and can stop maintaining the previous illusion (assuming they were even the ones doing it, they don't really strike me as the kind of people that could even pretend to be nice).

It's only significant enough now to make me speak up because there's other people that were more actively speaking about the casual and hardcore divide as well, thanks to Chaotic, which says a bloody damn lot that I couldn't even be comfortable airing any grievances with this severity and verbosity until I thought I wasn't alone yet again. Same as when I spoke of PVP changes, of data center issues, and nearly every other thing I've ever criticized about the game on the forums. Speaking up by yourself is a good way to get shut down, especially by those who don't think you belong to begin with.

And no, before someone tries to go on that track, I'm not trying to equate any of this to "discrimination" or anything like that. It's a video game, it's not that serious, but as a paying customer I will bloody ask where the money is going if we're all collectively getting hosed over here, as even hardcore players were ultimately denied a true raid but STILL feel the need to act this way like that's somehow my fault for breathing the same in-game oxygen as them. (Who is making up boogeymen again?)

Personally I feel like in spite of what people say about FFXIV community, the Hardcore vs Casual players divide is actually the worst and most toxic in FFXIV out of all the current big mainstream mmos. While it usually stays silent in game due to quite good chat moderation, in other online spaces it’s really visible.

[Kaurhz]

Sorry for the delayed replay. Work schedule doesn't leave me much time to sit on the forums hence why I'm unable to join a static to do Ultimates.

This post is a joke, right? There's no repeatability in normal content? Normal content doesn't contain gear, orchestrion scrolls, TT cards, minions, etc?

Sounds more like you're unhappy that "non-casual" content has extra perks like dyeable versions of the gear found in normal content and a mount reward for players engaging in harder content.

If you want the dyeable versions of the gear so you can flaunt it off in Limsa Lominsa, then you take time out of your afk sessions and engage with the content that rewards it, or you suck it up and wait until the next expansion when you can out-level, out-gear and unsync the content for your free mail-in rewards.

There's very limited replay value of these in comparison. Rewards like minions, orchestrion rolls, and TT cards etc., are generally not as highly sought after as gear, for example, and as far as gear goes, normal mode gear is near enough invalidated the same moment it is released. Crafted gear is generally inexpensive enough, so the incentive to actually replay a normal mode is already diminished and most especially with the accessibility with crafting, even for your most casual players. If Alliance Raids dropped gear equivalent to savage/tomestone gear, then the incentive would go up greatly (unless you're farming for glamour). Same thing with alliance raid gear, it drops at the same point as augmented crafted, and by the time it comes out, a lot of players will have already capped with the tomestones, so would quite easily get nearly everything to augmented. This is something I have done since Stormblood. It's the same thing with 8-man normal raid gear, this gear should be higher item level than crafted, seeing as it is weekly gated. Once again, something that would greatly improve the replayability.

I don't think people take as much issue with whether something has extra perks or not, but the fact remains regardless of these assumptions, it is something that improves incentive for getting the gear outside of BiS. Same thing applies with the mount, generally people hold more value in mounts than they do minions. Once again, regardless of your assumptions, the fact remains this is yet also another incentive to engage with that content. The question or issue isn't whether they should or should not. It's a question regarding the amount of replay value on those rewards.

[Mawlzy]

Personally I feel like in spite of what people say about FFXIV community, the Hardcore vs Casual players divide is actually the worst and most toxic in FFXIV out of all the current big mainstream mmos. While it usually stays silent in game due to quite good chat moderation, in other online spaces it’s really visible.

Absolutely this. It's astounding on YouTube. Scroll through the comments on guides for dungeons/trials/raids/solo duties. Littered with comments about how the content is "brain-dead" easy and doesn't require a guide, flaming the content creator, along with insults towards anyone who needs such content. Like people are actually going out of their way to find videos they don't need so they can flex and insult others.

The only game where I've seen similar levels of hostility is EVE.

[MisterNublet]

1. Here shows the difference in player mentality, I don’t care about “bragging rights” of X item and its imaginary value when deciding to get it, I only care if it has nice glam potential or if the mount looks fun, the amount of players who have it too doesn’t matter for me at all.

Great, if something has nice glam potential or the mount looks fun for you, go do the content that rewards it.

If someone really wants to brag so much about their in game achievements, titles and ultimate weapons should be enough for them

Because AntoniusQuil decrees it so, only Ultimate clears are allowed bragging rights, because he wants the same glams and mounts that are rewarded for clearing Savage without having to do it. You have the option of waiting until next expansion to unsync the content for an easy clear, but you'll have to wait.

2. “Taking away content”? But I thought that there’s no content being locked from anyone and forcing people to do stuff they really don’t want to do for it is good?

Who said anything about taking away content. If you don't want to do the content, then you don't get the rewards from said content. Just because you don't want to do the content doesn't mean anything is being taken away.

3. The discussion in this thread is about DT content, Nier content is two expansions old and newest chaotic alliance raid doesn’t have item lockout

And the alliance raid's loot lockout will be removed soon, during this Expansion "Dawntrail", and will still need to be run by every player, casuals and non-casuals alike, for the coin at the end for upgrade materials, meaning you can farm it to your hearts content.

Chaotic Alliance raid doesn't have a lockout because the gear will be worthless in two months.

[Sifpatata]

I agree with you, I am a savage and ultimate player but I support you, the ffxiv devs need to change their formula, basically you guys will have nothing to do until april (7.2) I think the relics should be released in patch 7.1 as well as the quests to do them, to keep the casuals busy with something.