We are missing Content between Normal and Extreme. Wrong Audience for Chaotic

[Menriq]

Counterquestion.
What speaks against there being more content with different difficulties than we have now?
Why shouldn't normal - ex - savage be a more blurred line with other things inbetween?

Imo more options are always good for everyone.

I agree options are always a good thing. However, there are already complaints about there not being enough content. How many people would be happy if there was even less content because all we got for a patch was a raid with 7 different versions? Then what happens when they put a reward behind the version that is between EX and Savage, and there are people who can't do EX? I'm not saying I have the perfect answer to this, but the question remains is if the ROI is worth it, and I'm leaning towards it wouldn't be.

The mechanics are not hard but they still want you to pay attention and if too many screw up thats a wipe. Thats midcore for me.

There are clears with over 20 deaths and 70 damage downs. Are you saying then that Chaotic is midcore to you?

For me CLL had the perfect mix in asking enough of the core players and less of the rest.

What is a core player? I don't want to put words into your mouth, but I'm reading this as "There needs to be enough people that can carry and we can expect less from everyone else".

[Voidmage]

I agree options are always a good thing. However, there are already complaints about there not being enough content. How many people would be happy if there was even less content because all we got for a patch was a raid with 7 different versions? Then what happens when they put a reward behind the version that is between EX and Savage, and there are people who can't do EX? I'm not saying I have the perfect answer to this, but the question remains is if the ROI is worth it, and I'm leaning towards it wouldn't be.

I am not talking about a raid with 7 different versions but about different content in difficulty for different player levels.
I also don't have a perfect answer to the reward structure. The hairstyle in chaotic being sellable was a right step imo but maybe if they added another content for a lower difficulty level where you would have gotten the same tokkens as in chaotic but way slower or just different things...

There are clears with over 20 deaths and 70 damage downs. Are you saying then that Chaotic is midcore to you?

That is getting repeated but doesn't imply anything imo.
Was the overall ilvl on the level of bis gear so the dps check was higher? Was it a usuall PF group? When did those deaths occur (phase 1 or 2?)
Chaotic would be midcore for me with half the needed players when looked at the mechanics in a vacuum. In a normal PF group with 24 people who at maximum have the raidplan? Those 20 deaths from my experience there almost always result in a wipe if in phase 2.
For me it is slightly above midcore on savage tier. But honestly what I have learned is that for others savage is midcore evn though I disagree there.

What is a core player? I don't want to put words into your mouth, but I'm reading this as "There needs to be enough people that can carry and we can expect less from everyone else".

With core players I just mean for example the players who tackle Leon in CLL and the ones taking the leading role in the parrallel fight downstairs (the mvp's down there more or less).
That's what I mean.
Content where not everyone has to play perfect in fear of wiping everyone but absolutely above the normal raid content.


In the end we can all talk about all this till the heatdeath of the universe.
No one has a universal answer to what is midcore because one side only does easy content and the other side is too deep into hard content to be neutral about it (even I) and content creators are completely too much in their own bubble to form a neutral opinion.
The thing I AM sure for myself though is that we need more content on different difficulty spectrums and not just dead weight easy or savage number 2344234 and imo this expansion leasn too hard into the later side.

[Menriq]

I am not talking about a raid with 7 different versions but about different content in difficulty for different player levels.

Chaotic was an experiment. I'm sure they'll take feedback. If there is a next time, we'll see if there is an easier version or not.

That is getting repeated but doesn't imply anything imo.
Was the overall ilvl on the level of bis gear so the dps check was higher? Was it a usuall PF group? When did those deaths occur (phase 1 or 2?)

Let's be honest. If someone told you, with no context, that a piece of content was cleared with over 20 deaths and 71 damage downs, would your first thought be that it's an encounter that could be considered only for hardcore raiders?

Content where not everyone has to play perfect in fear of wiping everyone but absolutely above the normal raid content.

This sounds like EX. However, there are people saying that even this is too much commitment since it requires looking at guides.

[Voidmage]

Let's be honest. If someone told you, with no context, that a piece of content was cleared with over 20 deaths and 71 damage downs, would your first thought be that it's an encounter that could be considered only for hardcore raiders?

I would ask the same question about the circumstances of the deaths.
But you are right. I wouldn't think it was content only for hardcore raiders same as I don't think chaotic is only for them.
I purely think chaotic in it's form now is too punishing for what it wants to be.

This sounds like EX. However, there are people saying that even this is too much commitment since it requires looking at guides.

Like I said. Ex has a huge scale in it's difficulty.

[UkcsAlias]

Chaotic was an experiment. I'm sure they'll take feedback. If there is a next time, we'll see if there is an easier version or not.

I suspect that power creep will make the current one easier over time. 735 ilvl capping doesnt mean the cappting truly stops at 735, it goes on for quite a while as its a per stat cap. This should later on make it a lot more like a regular extreme in difficulty.

The real problem however is finding 24 people to know the mechanics well enough, there are a lot of body checks in this, and even just 1 or 2 deaths can quickly result in wipes.