We are missing Content between Normal and Extreme. Wrong Audience for Chaotic

[HyperiusUltima]

Right, so...I'm just going to come out and say it: Chaotic is not meant for your average player. The problem? Chaotic is coordinated by 24 Players. THAT CAN'T SCREW UP.

While it's fresh, sure - it's rough. But when we get into it? Even after getting past Phase 1 I can directly tell you that this raid is not even built mechanically for people who only do their roulettes and dailies. If people are going to whine about hands, then take it to the other thread - I'm more focusing on why this fight design doesn't work a majority of the time.

1) Let's turn back the clock to Eureka, when Foray Content had its first HUGE Raid. Baldesion Arsenal. It was a BLAST. Mechanics weren't exactly straight forward, sure, but it presented a challenge into itself. Why was this content successful for a while? Because Eureka was meant to be long form content. Bozja was the same, except with how the Relic was structured there and their much heavier leaning into Alliance Raid-like mechanics in Dalriada and Castrum Lacus Latore for easy repeatability. Chaotic however cannot stand on its own.

2) Reward Structure. Just to get the elephant out in the room, I will note that this reward structure sucks. For one, you have to clear MULTIPLE times to even get a sliver of that equipment or even just the item you're looking for. Secondly, the only way you're going to get things faster is by getting FRESH clears; that's right, they want people who raid to drag new people in and clear 24-man. What this does is give an additive 1 Demi-Materia II and 2 Demi-Materia I to the entire raid for every fresh clear. This isn't going to work out and it's more akin to the grind for EX Wings doing this over and over. While the Rewards are good, I cannot see this content standing for long even after guides come out because people will more than likely quit because of the hands.


This content was more made for your people doing Savage/EX already, and there is yet again a nothing burger between Normal and Extreme. They really need to be focusing on that problem in general, because as I stated before in another thread, they only get ONE chance to course correct. If they don't? Then the allegations about Yawntrail might as well be what this expansion truly is.

[CVXIV]

the other 30 threads beat you to it

[HyperiusUltima]

the other 30 threads beat you to it

You think people are going to go diving in the middle of a thread for that? It's better to just put it up front since most people only go through the first few pages before talking or just hit straight to the end of the thread after reading OP.

[Kaurhz]

BA is probably the most fun I've had in this game, second to crafting in HW. I also think this was the perfect difficulty between Normal > Extreme. It wasn't easy to trounce, it took a few attempts, but it was doable and felt rewarding back when I did it.

Bonus totems for players on first-time clear works well if the content is designed for long-form, but in my opinion this raid is just far far too short-form. I get that it can entice people to work with new players, but as someone else said it... Are you there to help them? Or are you there just to tolerate their existence because it's an additional reward for yourself? Sadly XIV lends itself to this.

Chaotic as it currently is would be fine if there were something between, more on the level of BA, for example. Which could serve as a stepping stone.

the other 30 threads beat you to it

Wouldn't need to be 30, or 31 if the uptake weren't at snails pace.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

I agree with others that the fight looks fun and the fight design looks great but as you said, it's not for the casual to mid-core group of players. The fight is mostly for savage and ultimate raiders and let's be honest... this group of players is not in need of content right now. As someone who is kinda in this group, the last thing I want is another hard fight to learn on top of savage clears and learning an ultimate. Since the release of DT, we got a few duns, 3 EXs, savage, ultimate, and an AR. The only meaningful content for players who aren't raiders is the EXs(honestly I don't know if EX is for this group...I just included bc I find EX pretty mid-core myself), and AR. Meanwhile, the Raiders have gotten a savage tier, a new ultimate, and now this fight.

As someone who is kinda on break from raiding, I honestly have nothing to do when playing FF14. Nothing to work towards other than EX mounts but that grind is SO boring...(90 clears of EX2, 60 clears of EX1, and 10 clears of EX3...still haven't seen a mount drop btw...). I would love something more led back and chill content that was also fun to play right now. Something to keep me playing the game. That is why I LOVE eurake, I always had something to do when eurake was new. The grind for relics is what kept me playing this game in between raid nights. Now I only log in to do EXs or when I was in a static Raid night.

Also, I agree that the reward system for CAR sucks esp in the long run. The longer the raid is out, the fewer first-time clears you will have to take advantage of. Meaning to get things like the hairstyle or mounts, you looking at farming the fight over 50 times. I don't know about anyone else but I think looking for 24 ppl for the same fight mouths after it came 50 times will be harder than the fight lol. I don't see this content having a long life, it will die pretty quickly just like Crit, and Crit duns only requires 4 ppl...

[Canadane]

Have you tried some Criterion Savages yet?

[HyperiusUltima]

Have you tried some Criterion Savages yet?

I have - but I solidly remember how that wasn't content geared towards what I'm talking about here. The issue at hand is that your average person who doesn't raid at high-end is kept out of the loop. Difficulty in dungeons is a good thing. Difficulty in Raids is a good thing. We need content to bridge the gap between them since what may be easy for one person who's raided a long time can be hard for another who's just first stepping into High-End Raids.

Also to note: Criterion Savage for Aloalo was geared literally towards your high-end raiders as is due to the fact that you required BiS to even have a chance to clear. Either way you cut it, one side is losing.

[Jeeqbit]

I only did up to the start of the tile phase so far, but it seems like it could be done casually up to there at least, once people are used to the mechanics (which only takes a few hours of prog).

Maybe reducing the reliance on eachother a bit (so a few people can mess up at a given time) would help. If it is to be midcore content, it should still have people rely on eachother in a phase like that, just with room for a small percentage of people to mess it up and survive. Because they nailed that with the pads against thunder god before the nerf in my opinion.

[Havenchild]

I only did up to the start of the tile phase so far, but it seems like it could be done casually up to there at least, once people are used to the mechanics (which only takes a few hours of prog).

Maybe reducing the reliance on eachother a bit (so a few people can mess up at a given time) would help. If it is to be midcore content, it should still have people rely on eachother in a phase like that, just with room for a small percentage of people to mess it up and survive. Because they nailed that with the pads against thunder god before the nerf in my opinion.

I mean one of the first chaotic clears was with like 76+ damage downs, 15+ deaths, so that already sounds pretty forgiving for content. You can mess up at least 3 towers at any given time, if you pump heavy shields for them (not a tank LB). Factoring Tank LB massively reduces the difficulty as well but alot of people don't always use it for whatever reason. That's already enough room for error. What the complainers want is just another alliance raid in general, not one any more difficult than what we've currently had though, which is clearly not what this content was meant to be from the get go. The community is the problem. The moment they face any smidge of challenge they cry, especially if a glam is behind it.

[CidHeiral]

Right, so...I'm just going to come out and say it: Chaotic is not meant for your average player. The problem? Chaotic is coordinated by 24 Players. THAT CAN'T SCREW UP.

While it's fresh, sure - it's rough. But when we get into it? Even after getting past Phase 1 I can directly tell you that this raid is not even built mechanically for people who only do their roulettes and dailies.

An alliance raid for people who only do their roulettes and dailies where everyone can screw up is called normal mode, which dropped earlier this patch.

This content was more made for your people doing Savage/EX already, and there is yet again a nothing burger between Normal and Extreme.

In your post you mention BA/Bozja which are normal difficulty content. If your point is that you want more exploratory zone content, I totally agree and that content is confirmed to be on the way.

If you're asking for them to bring back Hard mode however I would have to disagree. The current pipeline of normal/expert/alliance/extreme seems reasonable to me. If you can handle the latest alliance raid you should be able to handle an extreme. If you can't do that then you're not ready to move up. Creating a difficulty that is marginally different than normal isn't going to help that issue.