New Alliance Raid: Well done Devs

[TaleraRistain]

I know my thoughts on this will get me yelled at and laughed at, hell I'm already being down voted on Reddit. I feel the mechanics of this raid and the new dungeon are too much at once. For me it feels like there's too much going on, not enough room to breathe, to the point of panic. It also feels like for the last boss of the Alliance Raid, if your reaction time isn't super good, you get knocked around. I would like for things to be slowed down just a bit to make things easier to understand and not as hectic. I know people will say 'git gud' or 'Stop playing, filthy casual', but not everyone was wanting this to be frustrating.

*Sighs and holds up lunch tray to deflect thrown meatballs*

I'm going to help people shield you as well. I raid Savage. Savage has tricky and sometimes difficult to implement mechanics with tells that are easier to read than some of the things in this raid. There is a lot going on and the one saving grace is that some of those things don't hit very hard. But I will agree that the readability of some mechanics in the raid is trying to create artificial difficulty. The challenge should be in the mechanics, not trying to parse out the tell in the visual mess on the screen.

[Ath192]

I'm going to help people shield you as well. I raid Savage. Savage has tricky and sometimes difficult to implement mechanics with tells that are easier to read than some of the things in this raid. There is a lot going on and the one saving grace is that some of those things don't hit very hard. But I will agree that the readability of some mechanics in the raid is trying to create artificial difficulty. The challenge should be in the mechanics, not trying to parse out the tell in the visual mess on the screen.

I can't agree. For too long the game has been too stale and too boring to play. The alliance raid is not hard, and dying and failing while you get used to the mechanics is not something to be ashamed of but to be expected. A raid shouldn't be easily clearable in one go blind without dying.

That is the situation that has gone too long in this game. If you can easily pass and master the raid in one single go, then how boring and obsolete is the raid by the end of the week? 2 weeks? 4 months??? - the supposed lifespan of the patch. I for one celebrate that playing this raid I know I'm going to be stimulated by the mechanics more than I have been in the past, I can't be on my phone anymore, its no longer a mindless chore to extract a piece of gear from, it's a dangerous fight where I need to pay attention and it challenges me.

This is what end game raids should strive for in an MMO, and it is not hardcore, it is barely midcore content (I would argue its definitely casual). With time, it will become a snoozefest like all the other raids due to ilvl creep and sync, so people who want to sleep while farming gear can have their day.

But to suggest raids need to be easy or slow so they do not kill or challenge the player is unacceptable, and categorically unfun. They are raids... not walk-throughs.

[TaleraRistain]

I can't agree. For too long the game has been too stale and too boring to play. The alliance raid is not hard, and dying and failing while you get used to the mechanics is not something to be ashamed of but to be expected. A raid shouldn't be easily clearable in one go blind without dying.

That is the situation that has gone too long in this game. If you can easily pass and master the raid in one single go, then how boring and obsolete is the raid by the end of the week? 2 weeks? 4 months??? - the supposed lifespan of the patch. I for one celebrate that playing this raid I know I'm going to be stimulated by the mechanics more than I have been in the past, I can't be on my phone anymore, its no longer a mindless chore to extract a piece of gear from, it's a dangerous fight where I need to pay attention and it challenges me.

This is what end game raids should strive for in an MMO, and it is not hardcore, it is barely midcore content (I would argue its definitely casual). With time, it will become a snoozefest like all the other raids due to ilvl creep and sync, so people who want to sleep while farming gear can have their day.

But to suggest raids need to be easy or slow so they do not kill or challenge the player is unacceptable, and categorically unfun. They are raids... not walk-throughs.

I never said they were hard. Did you miss where I said I did Savage? My issue is trying to instill challenge in just being able to see things in the visual mess. There was a thread a while back about the visuals in M4S and I didn't completely feel the same as the OP with their example, they made a good point that SE just kind of vomits things on the screen instead of making tells clearer and having the mechanic be where the challenge is.

[Ath192]

I never said they were hard. Did you miss where I said I did Savage? My issue is trying to instill challenge in just being able to see things in the visual mess. There was a thread a while back about the visuals in M4S and I didn't completely feel the same as the OP with their example, they made a good point that SE just kind of vomits things on the screen instead of making tells clearer and having the mechanic be where the challenge is.

I don't know what to tell you other than I enjoy being challenged in any way at this point, no matter where that challenge is stemming from. Sometimes it may be the mechanic, other times discerning markers... And I disagree devs should be limited to adding challenge in only way either. This is what got this game so stale, you can only do things one way, you can only play jobs one way, you can only design dungeons one way, you can only unlock areas one way... it sets a bad precedent and one sure to become stale and boring quickly, as it has.

[TaleraRistain]

I don't know what to tell you other than I enjoy being challenged in any way at this point, no matter where that challenge is stemming from. Sometimes it may be the mechanic, other times discerning markers... And I disagree devs should be limited to adding challenge in only way either. This is what got this game so stale, you can only do things one way, you can only play jobs one way, you can only design dungeons one way, you can only unlock areas one way... it sets a bad precedent and one sure to become stale and boring quickly, as it has.

I enjoy being challenged as well. My static did the 24 man together and enjoyed it. Then we went and tried the new EX blind. That has some mechanics that have pretty clear tells that are still fun and challenging. The entire Savage raid tier had fun and challenging mechanics that didn't always rely on having to parse the tell out of visual spam. They are perfectly capable of not having to use that as a crutch for challenge.

[Alyx-Greywind]

I can't agree. For too long the game has been too stale and too boring to play. The alliance raid is not hard, and dying and failing while you get used to the mechanics is not something to be ashamed of but to be expected. A raid shouldn't be easily clearable in one go blind without dying.

That is the situation that has gone too long in this game. If you can easily pass and master the raid in one single go, then how boring and obsolete is the raid by the end of the week? 2 weeks? 4 months??? - the supposed lifespan of the patch. I for one celebrate that playing this raid I know I'm going to be stimulated by the mechanics more than I have been in the past, I can't be on my phone anymore, its no longer a mindless chore to extract a piece of gear from, it's a dangerous fight where I need to pay attention and it challenges me.

This is what end game raids should strive for in an MMO, and it is not hardcore, it is barely midcore content (I would argue its definitely casual). With time, it will become a snoozefest like all the other raids due to ilvl creep and sync, so people who want to sleep while farming gear can have their day.

But to suggest raids need to be easy or slow so they do not kill or challenge the player is unacceptable, and categorically unfun. They are raids... not walk-throughs.

Is that not what Extreme and Savage Content is for? To cater for those looking for the challenge? A lot of players simply play for the story and they shouldn't be locked out. Endgame should strive for difficulty which is exactly what Extreme and Savage provide and with the Chaos Alliance Raids coming quite soon we'll have a lot more high end content to challenge us. Is it so much to ask that the Casual playerbase get their Story mode content?

[Darnath]

Is that not what Extreme and Savage Content is for? To cater for those looking for the challenge? A lot of players simply play for the story and they shouldn't be locked out. Endgame should strive for difficulty which is exactly what Extreme and Savage provide and with the Chaos Alliance Raids coming quite soon we'll have a lot more high end content to challenge us. Is it so much to ask that the Casual playerbase get their Story mode content?

Agreed, but this forum basically seems to want all content to be Extreme tier or higher.
(adding more)

7.1+ is already loaded for them albeit time delayed annoying.

New Extreme
New upcoming Ultimate (next week)
New upcoming Extreme.. I mean Chaotic raid (December)

And now this Alliance ramped up the difficulty.

Oh well, I've only been logging on do to the PeluPelu then back off. At this point, should just let the sub lapse once I get to Bloodsworn with them all things considered. Tomestones are useless after you got the jobs you care about thanks to the every increasing time between patches.

[Gullis]

Agreed, but this forum basically seems to want all content to be Extreme tier or higher.
(adding more)

7.1+ is already loaded for them albeit time delayed annoying.

New Extreme
New upcoming Ultimate (next week)
New upcoming Extreme.. I mean Chaotic raid (December)

And now this Alliance ramped up the difficulty.

Oh well, I've only been logging on do to the PeluPelu then back off. At this point, should just let the sub lapse once I get to Bloodsworn with them all things considered. Tomestones are useless after you got the jobs you care about thanks to the every increasing time between patches.

A lot of people have been asking for middle ground stuff for a long time. content that doesn't put you to sleep, but also doesn't require the focus, and teamwork of ex/savage. This is what this content is
Give it some time, when people know the raid, and gear is better, then we will get another aglaia sleepo raid. This is content suppose to last us 4-5 months.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Is that not what Extreme and Savage Content is for? To cater for those looking for the challenge? A lot of players simply play for the story and they shouldn't be locked out. Endgame should strive for difficulty which is exactly what Extreme and Savage provide and with the Chaos Alliance Raids coming quite soon we'll have a lot more high end content to challenge us. Is it so much to ask that the Casual playerbase get their Story mode content?

If you think wiping a few times, again on week 1, in a pug is the same as "Savage" i have no idea what to tell you.

Poeple have come to expect so little challenge that anything that requires a modicum of thought is pushed back as Savage.

This is not content that requires a static, that much practice, or optimized gear.

This level of challenge is great for casuals. The fact we can all clear this with bad gear, no practice, and a PUG works just fine. If an extreme end of "I can't be challenged or learn patterns" players dont want to play it, so be it.