New Alliance Raid: Well done Devs

[TaleraRistain]

I can't agree. For too long the game has been too stale and too boring to play. The alliance raid is not hard, and dying and failing while you get used to the mechanics is not something to be ashamed of but to be expected. A raid shouldn't be easily clearable in one go blind without dying.

That is the situation that has gone too long in this game. If you can easily pass and master the raid in one single go, then how boring and obsolete is the raid by the end of the week? 2 weeks? 4 months??? - the supposed lifespan of the patch. I for one celebrate that playing this raid I know I'm going to be stimulated by the mechanics more than I have been in the past, I can't be on my phone anymore, its no longer a mindless chore to extract a piece of gear from, it's a dangerous fight where I need to pay attention and it challenges me.

This is what end game raids should strive for in an MMO, and it is not hardcore, it is barely midcore content (I would argue its definitely casual). With time, it will become a snoozefest like all the other raids due to ilvl creep and sync, so people who want to sleep while farming gear can have their day.

But to suggest raids need to be easy or slow so they do not kill or challenge the player is unacceptable, and categorically unfun. They are raids... not walk-throughs.

I never said they were hard. Did you miss where I said I did Savage? My issue is trying to instill challenge in just being able to see things in the visual mess. There was a thread a while back about the visuals in M4S and I didn't completely feel the same as the OP with their example, they made a good point that SE just kind of vomits things on the screen instead of making tells clearer and having the mechanic be where the challenge is.

[Ath192]

I never said they were hard. Did you miss where I said I did Savage? My issue is trying to instill challenge in just being able to see things in the visual mess. There was a thread a while back about the visuals in M4S and I didn't completely feel the same as the OP with their example, they made a good point that SE just kind of vomits things on the screen instead of making tells clearer and having the mechanic be where the challenge is.

I don't know what to tell you other than I enjoy being challenged in any way at this point, no matter where that challenge is stemming from. Sometimes it may be the mechanic, other times discerning markers... And I disagree devs should be limited to adding challenge in only way either. This is what got this game so stale, you can only do things one way, you can only play jobs one way, you can only design dungeons one way, you can only unlock areas one way... it sets a bad precedent and one sure to become stale and boring quickly, as it has.

[Alyx-Greywind]

I can't agree. For too long the game has been too stale and too boring to play. The alliance raid is not hard, and dying and failing while you get used to the mechanics is not something to be ashamed of but to be expected. A raid shouldn't be easily clearable in one go blind without dying.

That is the situation that has gone too long in this game. If you can easily pass and master the raid in one single go, then how boring and obsolete is the raid by the end of the week? 2 weeks? 4 months??? - the supposed lifespan of the patch. I for one celebrate that playing this raid I know I'm going to be stimulated by the mechanics more than I have been in the past, I can't be on my phone anymore, its no longer a mindless chore to extract a piece of gear from, it's a dangerous fight where I need to pay attention and it challenges me.

This is what end game raids should strive for in an MMO, and it is not hardcore, it is barely midcore content (I would argue its definitely casual). With time, it will become a snoozefest like all the other raids due to ilvl creep and sync, so people who want to sleep while farming gear can have their day.

But to suggest raids need to be easy or slow so they do not kill or challenge the player is unacceptable, and categorically unfun. They are raids... not walk-throughs.

Is that not what Extreme and Savage Content is for? To cater for those looking for the challenge? A lot of players simply play for the story and they shouldn't be locked out. Endgame should strive for difficulty which is exactly what Extreme and Savage provide and with the Chaos Alliance Raids coming quite soon we'll have a lot more high end content to challenge us. Is it so much to ask that the Casual playerbase get their Story mode content?

[Darnath]

Is that not what Extreme and Savage Content is for? To cater for those looking for the challenge? A lot of players simply play for the story and they shouldn't be locked out. Endgame should strive for difficulty which is exactly what Extreme and Savage provide and with the Chaos Alliance Raids coming quite soon we'll have a lot more high end content to challenge us. Is it so much to ask that the Casual playerbase get their Story mode content?

Agreed, but this forum basically seems to want all content to be Extreme tier or higher.
(adding more)

7.1+ is already loaded for them albeit time delayed annoying.

New Extreme
New upcoming Ultimate (next week)
New upcoming Extreme.. I mean Chaotic raid (December)

And now this Alliance ramped up the difficulty.

Oh well, I've only been logging on do to the PeluPelu then back off. At this point, should just let the sub lapse once I get to Bloodsworn with them all things considered. Tomestones are useless after you got the jobs you care about thanks to the every increasing time between patches.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Is that not what Extreme and Savage Content is for? To cater for those looking for the challenge? A lot of players simply play for the story and they shouldn't be locked out. Endgame should strive for difficulty which is exactly what Extreme and Savage provide and with the Chaos Alliance Raids coming quite soon we'll have a lot more high end content to challenge us. Is it so much to ask that the Casual playerbase get their Story mode content?

If you think wiping a few times, again on week 1, in a pug is the same as "Savage" i have no idea what to tell you.

Poeple have come to expect so little challenge that anything that requires a modicum of thought is pushed back as Savage.

This is not content that requires a static, that much practice, or optimized gear.

This level of challenge is great for casuals. The fact we can all clear this with bad gear, no practice, and a PUG works just fine. If an extreme end of "I can't be challenged or learn patterns" players dont want to play it, so be it.

[Alix_Farin]

I know my thoughts on this will get me yelled at and laughed at, hell I'm already being down voted on Reddit. I feel the mechanics of this raid and the new dungeon are too much at once. For me it feels like there's too much going on, not enough room to breathe, to the point of panic. It also feels like for the last boss of the Alliance Raid, if your reaction time isn't super good, you get knocked around. I would like for things to be slowed down just a bit to make things easier to understand and not as hectic. I know people will say 'git gud' or 'Stop playing, filthy casual', but not everyone was wanting this to be frustrating.

*Sighs and holds up lunch tray to deflect thrown meatballs*

No, I agree with you, kind of. I'd also like the mechs to be a little less hectic, but I want class complexity implemented to make up for it. I bet a lot of people dogging on your idea are not looking past what you're saying and considering that it could have other implications. Not that I can blame them with how... liberal the devs have been with the sandpaper towards class complexity recently.

[Ath192]

No, I agree with you, kind of. I'd also like the mechs to be a little less hectic, but I want class complexity implemented to make up for it. I bet a lot of people dogging on your idea are not looking past what you're saying and considering that it could have other implications. Not that I can blame them with how... liberal the devs have been with the sandpaper towards class complexity recently.

You know what the problem is? This game has been criticized to death by hyper casuals that don't want to actually play a game. They want to mindlessly walk through dungeons and raids (That are supposed to be EPIC AND DANGEROUS) and get pretty gear so they can dress up their character and call it good. While there isn't a problem avoiding challenge, if that's what they want to do they should be pushed towards crafting and sight seeing logs that give rewards. That shouldn't be challenging and be a relaxing good time.

But what has actually happened? Time and time again people come in here and complain about endgame content NO MATTER WHAT and time and time again the devs just shrug and take things away from us and give nothing in return. This cycle has led this game to become completely lobotomized for people who actually want to play.

The casual experience of this game should still have a level of danger so the people feel like they are actually in a world filled with monsters and villains that are at least capable of harming you... It should not require raid callouts, or high level organization... But the content should be able to wipe you... Dying is a normal part of a game.

If you think the patch content is "packed" with hardcore content think again. An extreme level fight here and there and 1 Ultimate fight isn't a lot of content.... People here are pointing their guns at the wrong crowd. Criticizing hardcore gamers for getting some content while both sides think they aren't getting much each patch.

This is making the playerbase fight for scraps.

[CidHeiral]

The raid was amazing and most importantly the difficulty is spot on. I sincerely hope they don't nerf the raid because of any whining.

[Valence]

It's cool to hear they did XI justice.

Even though some of the bosses aren't exactly my cup of tea (2nd and 4th especially), I did appreciate the effort into bringing variety and different encounters for each boss, special mention to the third one with multiple targets. I do however have a potentially huge issue with the 4th boss cleaves of which the telegraphs look nice but are also obnoxiously too close to the camera and too big to properly follow, and it's even more egregious to see exactly where they start and where they do end, leaving you guestimating where the geometry is actually gonna apply, and I do feel this is a little crummy and bad artificial difficulty.

[Doopliss]

Wanted to +1 because I had a lot of fun with this 24man, too. I was terrified it was going to be another snoozefest like every single entry in Myths of the Realm, and am so, sincerely thankful it isn't. While I'm sure people will learn and it will get easier relatively quickly, I'm pretty damn confident it won't be like the Myths of the Realm series, which were essentially doable even with your eyes closed as a first timer on day one. I really hope they don't nerf anything here.