The Formula won't change

[Arlythe]

"I don't want criterion guys, I simply want criterion" xD

No assuming here. You didn't do the content. It's ok


The forums always deliever lmao

You could always just ask if you don't understand what I am saying instead of using such a passive aggressive undertone.
Do you want me to repeat it using simpler words so you understand or are you just here to troll, because then I'll pass, i have way more important things to do.

[TomsYoungerBro]

You could always just ask if you don't understand what I am saying instead of using such a passive aggressive undertone.
Do you want me to repeat it using simpler words so you understand or are you just here to troll, because then I'll pass, i have way more important things to do.

Nothing is really being missed here. You want criterion type content. It exists in the game (called criterion). You say you don't want it even though you explained it as a piece of content you would like. It exists in the game. You haven't done it before. You say it doesn't fit what you want, but you haven't done it. The only troll is you .

Edit:

Side note, you can already complete every piece of content out there with just the crafted gear that has been available and needs no tome farming nonsense. (well it does need some tomes but not near to what you need in order to be BiS)

This.

This is factually not true. The ultimate on-patch will require BiS gear while its current. This is how its always been from UCOB until now. You do the savage tier when its current to farm gear from the raid and tomes (with augments). You then use that gear in the next patch to attempt the ultimate on patch. Please do the content.

[Katish]

-cut-

Very persuasive, astute even, argument. If this weren't an MMO and if there didn't exist examples that you could pull from to make a comparative counter-example. You can have varying levels of difficulty when it comes to new dungeons, in fact an MMO named Mabinogi (a 16 maybe more years old mmo) has beginner dungeons, normal dungeons, basic dungeons, intermediate dungeons, advanced dungeons, hard mode normal dungeons, hard mode basic dungeons, hard mode advanced dungeons, shadow missions (which are effectively non-floor related monster environments), theater missions (Same as prior), and a whole lot of other monster related content all varying levels of difficulty and execution depending on how they are named (beginner, normal, basic, intermediate, advanced, and phantasmal (more modernly added now))

Now it doesn't have to be that crazy but a lot of folks seem to be asking for more varying levels of difficulty combined with better execution. I am not sure how that is hard to understand, there doesn't just have to exist the easiest/hardest end of the spectrum of content and it doesn't all have to be made in the same format.

I don't care one way or the other, I am more concerned on why people are against more content being added, that surely wasn't on my bingo card of FFXIV players, especially with the lack of newer added content and the spacing issue on how long that content is supposed to last.

[Arlythe]

I'm also aware you're not really arguing this, but the fact he says this is annoying to me.

And that's perfectly fine. When one leaves a statement like that, by itself, it indeed gives the impression of indifference or the false benevolence you mentioned. However, I understood it as him trying to say, "Hey, if the content doesn’t appeal to you or is too demanding so that you need a break, take it without the fear of missing out or falling behind other players." Which, in my opinion, isn’t the worst mentality to have.

However, you’re also right—if I’m offering a live-action service like an MMO, I have to keep fill it with live; otherwise, people will wander off. And if they then start other MMOs and even form emotional attachments to the game or the people they meet, the likelihood of them returning is, as to be expected, quite low. And no responsible operator would want that.

This lack of risk-taking and insistence on old patterns isn’t unique to SQE, though. I’ve noticed it with many Japanese companies. Even major brands like Pokémon, which have been receiving more and more criticism for over a decade now, prefer to stick to their old formulas. So I’d be cautiously pessimistic about expecting any major steps forward. If you have positive examples, feel free to share them with me. I’d rather not be proven right in this case, because I do believe in the future of FFXIV—or, more accurately, I very much hope for it.

Nothing is really being missed here. You want criterion type content. It exists in the game (called criterion). You say you don't want it even though you explained it as a piece of content you would like. It exists in the game. You haven't done it before. You say it doesn't fit what you want, but you haven't done it. The only troll is you .

Where did I say I want criterion dungeons, exactely?
I said I want savage versions of the REGULAR 4-player dungeons, the one's we got 13 of in ShB and EW, 18 in HW and 15 in SB, not the 3 criterion dungeons.
If your only response to this is parroting "Hurr you didn't play it" then please, save us both the time and don't even bother typing.

[TomsYoungerBro]

Very persuasive, astute even, argument. If this weren't an MMO and if there didn't exist examples that you could pull from to make a comparative counter-example. You can have varying levels of difficulty when it comes to new dungeons, in fact an MMO named Mabinogi (a 16 maybe more years old mmo) has beginner dungeons, normal dungeons, basic dungeons, intermediate dungeons, advanced dungeons, hard mode normal dungeons, hard mode basic dungeons, hard mode advanced dungeons, shadow missions (which are effectively non-floor related monster environments), theater missions (Same as prior), and a whole lot of other monster related content all varying levels of difficulty and execution depending on how they are named (beginner, normal, basic, intermediate, advanced, and phantasmal (more modernly added now))

Now it doesn't have to be that crazy but a lot of folks seem to be asking for more varying levels of difficulty combined with better execution. I am not sure how that is hard to understand, there doesn't just have to exist the easiest/hardest end of the spectrum of content and it doesn't all have to be made in the same format.

I don't care one way or the other, I am more concerned on why people are against more content being added, that surely wasn't on my bingo card of FFXIV players, especially with the lack of newer added content and the spacing issue on how long that content is supposed to last.

Im not even sure what post of mine exactly you are referring to here, but in regards to the other person i was commenting: They wanted savage dungeons, yet they don't even do criterion which is literally savage dungeons. Ok.

Where did I say I want criterion dungeons, exactely?
I said I want savage versions of the REGULAR 4-player dungeons, the one's we got 13 of in ShB and EW, 18 in HW and 15 in SB, not the 3 criterion dungeons.
If your only response to this is parroting "Hurr you didn't play it" then please, save us both the time and don't even bother typing.

This isn't rocket science. Your argument for why criterion doesn't work for you as opposed to your exact ask makes 0 sense. Criterion and Criterion(Savage) are the exact type of content you are asking for. Yet you don't even do those. You want me to believe you want that content for every dungeon in the game post-ARR? You aren't even doing the savage dungeons in the game now. This is comical.

[Absurdity]

Criterion and Criterion(Savage) are the exact type of content you are asking for. Yet you don't even do those. You want me to believe you want that content for every dungeon in the game post-ARR? You aren't even doing the savage dungeons in the game now. This is comical.

Not really. I guess if we take modern XIV's dismal normal dungeons as the standard then yes, technically they qualify as dungeons, but they're really just boss gauntlets.

[Arlythe]

Not really. I guess if we take modern XIV's dismal normal dungeons as the standard then yes, technically they qualify as dungeons, but they're really just boss gauntlets.

Which era of dungeon design do you like the most and what do you think modern ones are lacking? Sincere question, I always thought dungeons are pretty even all across the board.
I don't remember which patch it was but they modernized a lot of the older dungeons from ARR by removing some things that were confusing or drawing out the length of it, did you like those changes?

[Absurdity]

Which era of dungeon design do you like the most and what do you think modern ones are lacking? Sincere question, I always thought dungeons are pretty even all across the board.
I don't remember which patch it was but they modernized a lot of the older dungeons from ARR by removing some things that were confusing or drawing out the length of it, did you like those changes?

The dungeon design in XIV was never amazing, but for the last 3 expansions it has been the exact same copy+pasted formula of 2 trash packs -> wall -> 2 trash packs -> boss -> repeat, with nothing but linear corridors connecting you to the next boss arena.
They're all essentially the same dungeon with the background scenery swapped out. Just look at Grand Cosmos with the big open garden area, but you're somehow still shoehorned into a bunch of corridors by invisible walls.

As clunky as a lot of the ARR dungeons ended up being, at least they were experimenting with different ideas and gimmicks. Boss mechanics have slightly improved in Dawntrail from the tired old "spread/stack, chariot/dynamo, dodge cleaves" song and dance while you whack the boss, but the actual layout between bosses has stayed exactly the same.

If it were up to me I would open the dungeons up a lot more, design the layout like a place people might actually live in, with open areas, alternate paths and optional bosses.
Give those a chance to dop housing items, minions and maybe even rare mounts to incentivize doing the optional ones, but allow people to just rush to the end if all they want is the quick roulette bonus.

For context I still consider Blackrock Depths in vanilla WoW to be the best dungeon ever made, something Blizzard themselves have never quite managed to repeat, but that's partially because they shackled themselves to the mythic+ system so all dungeons need to work with it.

XIV doesn't really have that restriction and if one dungeon takes longer than the others in the pool (for expert as an example) just increase the rewards you get from it, they were already able to do it with Praetorium/Castrum before the rework.

We had these last expansion and almost no one did them. Lmfao

The problems with Criterion are myriad. The extreme jump in difficulty compared to the normal variant version, the arbitrary restrictions on raise, the lack of enticing rewards and, at least for me, the fact that it wasn't really a harder dungeon but a bunch of extreme trial/savage bosses strung together.