Giving up

[WaxSw]

Source for what? The %'s are based on the Steam charts that, as you mentioned, anyone can view...

Also, remember that EW dropped in the middle of the "WoW Exodus," so the pure population #'s for the beginning of EW and its first patch cycle or so are inflated with people who were never likely to stick around that long, anyway. A better comparison will be around the time we hit the .2 patch and comparing it to the similar EW numbers, since by then the "WoW Exodus" had run its course.

As other person has pointed out, you are extrapolating retention from population data which is a misuse of the data presented, as we do not know how many accounts are new, how many are on the free trial (which wasnt as extensive as it is now) and how many are returners. We can only analyze the population by numbers and the feedback out of the steam data out of which so far we can see 3 things:

-DT has less average population than EW on the same span of time
-XIV population growth seem to have stopped for the time being
-DT is so far the expansion with the worst reception (this in both steam score and metacritics user score)

If we want to analyze retention we could do some analysis like luckybancho does, tracking based on how many people finish MSQ from patch to patch but we are too early into the xpac to see that kind of analysis and even that one is flawed, hence why I ask for a source, because so far, outside SE exclusive data there doesn't seem any kind of proper analysis from which we can see the retention.

On a side note trying to say that the people who leave silently are insignificant is... naive to say the least. That is a lesson that the devs had to learn when salvaging the disaster the version 1.0 was:



Those silent are the first to leave and many may not come back if changes are not introduced.

[CaedemSanguis]

Take a break, it's been a week that my sub is over and I dont plan on resubbing until FRU is released

[Absurdity]

And I know someone who is struggling to find 1 person to fill their 2 nights a week static.

That's been our M4s experience for almost 2 months now. The fight isn't even hard, getting into the instance in the first place to get any kind of prog is. We've been waiting up to 2 hours a night on a single DPS.

[Sensui]

That's been our M4s experience for almost 2 months now. The fight isn't even hard, getting into the instance in the first place to get any kind of prog is. We've been waiting up to 2 hours a night on a single DPS.

What do you mean? This doesn't happen! There are over 150 active parties at all times just churning out reclear after reclear. Never has there been a shorter wait time for parties to fill. This sounds like a "you" problem.

[Havenchild]

As other person has pointed out, you are extrapolating retention from population data which is a misuse of the data presented, as we do not know how many accounts are new, how many are on the free trial (which wasnt as extensive as it is now) and how many are returners. We can only analyze the population by numbers and the feedback out of the steam data out of which so far we can see 3 things:

-DT has less average population than EW on the same span of time
-XIV population growth seem to have stopped for the time being
-DT is so far the expansion with the worst reception (this in both steam score and metacritics user score)

If we want to analyze retention we could do some analysis like luckybancho does, tracking based on how many people finish MSQ from patch to patch but we are too early into the xpac to see that kind of analysis and even that one is flawed, hence why I ask for a source, because so far, outside SE exclusive data there doesn't seem any kind of proper analysis from which we can see the retention.

On a side note trying to say that the people who leave silently are insignificant is... naive to say the least. That is a not introduced.

So based on your comment, we can only analyze and accept data that reinforces a negative bias about the game during DT.

What about the fact that DT had the highest raid clear for week 1 of all XIV? Like 3x more? Does that not prove that more people not only completed the MSQ within 2 weeks (pre -raid) but also stayed to complete the raid tier? You can say more people cleared faster due to an "easier raid" but its way higher than previous "first" tiers still meaning that far more players jumped into the raiding scene for DT than ever before which in turn reflects more players are in-game than before.

Also the irony of your comment is that you say other data is flawed yet you site steamcharts numbers as definitive numbers when a heavy majority of the playerbase is not on the steam platform. That means that steam data is inherently flawed as well.

[Supersnow845]

So based on your comment, we can only analyze and accept data that reinforces a negative bias about the game during DT.

What about the fact that DT had the highest raid clear for week 1 of all XIV? Like 3x more? Does that not prove that more people not only completed the MSQ within 2 weeks (pre -raid) but also stayed to complete the raid tier? You can say more people cleared faster due to an "easier raid" but its way higher than previous "first" tiers still meaning that far more players jumped into the raiding scene for DT than ever before.

Also the irony of your comment is that other data is flawed yet you site steamcharts numbers as definitive numbers when a heavy majority of the playerbase is not on the steam platform. That means that steam data is inherently flawed as well.

That data is just as meaningless as any other data

“We made the raid tier super easy hoping on DPS checks then blew them up trying to rebalance PCT”

Isn’t a strong indication retention is high either

Not saying WaxSw’s data should be taken as gospel either but a super easy tier being highly cleared is not indicative of anything

[Hyperia]

Using statistics, any sample size that is in excess of 10,000 people is considered a high quality sample. The Steam userbase is well in excess of 10,000 users so we do have valid data that can be used as a sample. While yes, it is a sample, it is good enough to make calculations and analysis based upon it. I highly doubt that there is a significant difference between Steam users and the rest of the userbase.

[Striker44]

As other person has pointed out, you are extrapolating retention from population data which is a misuse of the data presented, as we do not know how many accounts are new, how many are on the free trial (which wasnt as extensive as it is now) and how many are returners. We can only analyze the population by numbers and the feedback out of the steam data out of which so far we can see 3 things:

We don't know those things for any period of time, so it's still the best comparison we can make. It's all largely irrelevant, since they're all active players, anyway.

-DT has less average population than EW on the same span of time
-XIV population growth seem to have stopped for the time being
-DT is so far the expansion with the worst reception (this in both steam score and metacritics user score)

So, wait...using the numbers from Steam is "misusing" them because we don't know certain things about them...so...let's use the Steam data? You literally just claimed it's unreliable, then immediately tried to cite it yourself...

By the way, your "analysis" here completely ignores the explanation for it - the infamous "WoW Exodus." Look at how the Steam chart skyrocketed in the couple months leading up to EW (when the "Exodus" occurred). That's why DT's population is "lower" right now - because it was artificially inflated during EW at this point in its lifespan.

If you want a better comparison, look at the Steam numbers comparing DT to ShB, where it's about 50% higher at similar points, or go back to the ARR-SB era, where DT is about 3-4x larger.

Steam score and metacritic are relatively worthless and easily subject to review bombing. Consider that 2 months into EW, Steam logins had dropped 57% (and EW has a 92% metacritic rating), while DT has only dropped 52% (virtually the same as ShB, which is widely considered the "best" expansion).

If we want to analyze retention we could do some analysis like luckybancho does, tracking based on how many people finish MSQ from patch to patch but we are too early into the xpac to see that kind of analysis and even that one is flawed, hence why I ask for a source, because so far, outside SE exclusive data there doesn't seem any kind of proper analysis from which we can see the retention.

I'm very confused why you're asking for a "source" while quoting and using that very source yourself...

So based on your comment, we can only analyze and accept data that reinforces a negative bias about the game during DT.

Didn't you know that's how things work around here? You're only allowed to be negative. Inject rational thoughts or the idea of liking the game at your own risk!

[Havenchild]

Using statistics, any sample size that is in excess of 10,000 people is considered a high quality sample. The Steam userbase is well in excess of 10,000 users so we do have valid data that can be used as a sample. While yes, it is a sample, it is good enough to make calculations and analysis based upon it. I highly doubt that there is a significant difference between Steam users and the rest of the userbase.

Except it represents quite literally a fraction of the overall playerbase comparatively, and specifically a steam playerbase that increased during the WoW exodus when the steam version became significantly more popular due to them finally fixing that versions issues as well as a more seamless purchasing experience (with work arounds for mogstation). Meaning the userbase on steam is close to a majority now being a relatively novice install base in the lifecycle of XIV overall.

Also, idk how you consider extrapolating data from such a small base is synonomous to the more experienced base on PC.

[Sacae]

I seem to recall their being some kind of controversy with the Steam version of this game, back during Shadowbringers, I think? The forums were going nuts over it at least, with the general consensus being that no one should EVER use Steam for this game, and that making some waves in the wider community. I would be interested to see actual numbers on the Steam vs direct from the Square Enix store PC population, as, IIRC, PC players do make up a majority of the players, if only in the west.