Out of touch? PLL

[Supersnow845]

We had content that had the same popularity as the normal raid series and dumped it for content that so completely automates itself it’s arguable if it’s even content

[Striker44]

So this "largely unpopular content" saw nearly 50% of the entire playerbase reach at least Zadnor. For comparison sake, the only other singular piece of content with that level of engagement is the MSQ. The supposedly unequally unpopular Eureka saw nearly 20% make it all the way to level 60, which is only obtainable by both unlocking and participating in the last zone.

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

[Xeronia]

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

You had to do Eureka for the Stormblood relic as it was the only way to get it, I think you may be confusing the two. Bozja allowed you to do the vast majority of it outside of the exploration content (granted Castrum Lacus Litore, Delubrum Reginae, and Dalriada all had to be completed which required resistance rank and two of which you had to be in the zones to queue for).

[Ardeth]

You had to do Eureka for the Stormblood relic as it was the only way to get it, I think you may be confusing the two. Bozja allowed you to do the vast majority of it outside of the exploration content (granted Castrum Lacus Litore, Delubrum Reginae, and Dalriada all had to be completed which required resistance rank and two of which you had to be in the zones to queue for).

God I hate Zadnor soo much. They need to like 5x the xp gain to get me to go back there. I'd rather play Wow. That's how much I cannot stand Bozja. That content is so convaluted and grindy. I hate it so damn much.

[CNitsah]

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

I feel like the complaints about Eureka Bozja always has been about the form than its objective. Sure Bozja/Zadnor is perfectible, but it does well in filling the role of that kind of content : being content with high shelf life. Maybe I'm biased because I kinda like htat content, but I feel the real problem with the removal of exploratory zone isn't really because people loved to run fates over and over, but because it was a content with low barrier entry (you could join and leave as you wished without penalizing other players) and high life, which made it the perfect content to run during off periods. Heck, I'm still running Eureka right now for that exact reason.

[Ardeth]

I feel like the complaints about Eureka Bozja always has been about the form than its objective. Sure Bozja/Zadnor is perfectible, but it does well in filling the role of that kind of content : being content with high shelf life. Maybe I'm biased because I kinda like htat content, but I feel the real problem with the removal of exploratory zone isn't really because people loved to run fates over and over, but because it was a content with low barrier entry (you could join and leave as you wished without penalizing other players) and high life, which made it the perfect content to run during off periods. Heck, I'm still running Eureka right now for that exact reason.

I just hate how you're punished for dying. The xp is terrible. And the majority of the time, the zones are dead. If I could casually go in fail, die solo FATEs, etc. I would like it more. Unfortunately, I have to worry about my instance being full and other players being in the zone of Zadnor that I am in. It's terrible. Think of the idea of making an exploratory zone that punishes you for exploration. It's moronic. I get it's to emulate 11, but 11 was terrible. It's such archaic garbage. And if I never finish it, then so be it.

[ForteNightshade]

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

As Xeronia mentioned, you did need to do Eureka for the relic. In fact, unlike Bozja, there was no alternative method outside Eureka to progress it.

Regardless, yes the relic definitely played a role in forcing participation but how much is quite debatable. Even if you cut the number of people making it to Zadnor in half, it's still higher than the supposed "chill" content they put so much effort into last expansion. As for Eureka's drop off. Like I said, that is largely due to Pagos and the devs insisting on a FFXI style grind nobody asked for. The equivalent would be suddenly jumping the tome step from EW to 20,000 for a single step. If they had done that participation would have plummeted all the same. Pyros did a lot to course correct but you still had to deal with Pagos despite all its eventual nerfs. Bozja being so much more successful really highlights how badly Pagos hurt Eureka.

With all that said though, I don't know why we can't have both. While I hated the tome step because it's incredibly boring and makes the weapon feel like a throwaway. I don't hate that existing as an eventual alternative sort of how EX primal mounts can be bought after two patches. One of the bigger complaints I've had towards exploratory content is the terrible lack of futureproofing it has.

I feel like the complaints about Eureka Bozja always has been about the form than its objective. Sure Bozja/Zadnor is perfectible, but it does well in filling the role of that kind of content : being content with high shelf life. Maybe I'm biased because I kinda like htat content, but I feel the real problem with the removal of exploratory zone isn't really because people loved to run fates over and over, but because it was a content with low barrier entry (you could join and leave as you wished without penalizing other players) and high life, which made it the perfect content to run during off periods. Heck, I'm still running Eureka right now for that exact reason.

For me at least it was content I could hop into at practically hour of the day for little more than an hour and feel like I'm getting something done. FFXIV lacks any sort of longevity or reasons to continuously log in once you've finished most of a patch offering which rarely takes more than a week if even that. Exploratory content helps mitigate that, especially if you fancy multiple relics. It also makes them feel like a weapon upgrade and not a glorified tome weapon some random dude is selling.

[Striker44]

You had to do Eureka for the Stormblood relic as it was the only way to get it, I think you may be confusing the two. Bozja allowed you to do the vast majority of it outside of the exploration content (granted Castrum Lacus Litore, Delubrum Reginae, and Dalriada all had to be completed which required resistance rank and two of which you had to be in the zones to queue for).

Heh, I just looked at my stuff and I must have been thinking of the HW relic. I skipped the SB one altogether because it required Eureka. And like I said, besides the obvious requirements to do considerable parts of the Bozja/Zadnor storyline (meaning people will show up as having "reached" Zadnor), even for the parts where it wasn't mandatory, it was still the far more efficient way to get the relic.

[Luluya]

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

I've seen this poster bend over backwards at every possible opportunity to defend the big company and its decisions, but this is the first time I've seen them blatantly lie while doing so, huh.

[Xeronia]

Heh, I just looked at my stuff and I must have been thinking of the HW relic. I skipped the SB one altogether because it required Eureka. And like I said, besides the obvious requirements to do considerable parts of the Bozja/Zadnor storyline (meaning people will show up as having "reached" Zadnor), even for the parts where it wasn't mandatory, it was still the far more efficient way to get the relic.

I personally always will advocate for a Bozja/Zadnor like system with fully being able to do it outside of exploratory content if you hate it. You want that Eureka/Bozja grind have at, if not an HW one should be present for you of each step that doesn't require you to go into the exploratory content at all. My biggest issue with EW was it was only tomestones and I need those for crafting mats, I would have loved an option to go somewhere else and get a resource I could turn in instead from a place like Eureka or Bozja.