Out of touch? PLL

[Havenchild]

snip.

The short term memory of these forums never seizes to amaze me. Exploratory zones were largely unpopular content for their releases, specifically the biggest complaint being too grindy and just fate hopping with no real mechanics. Bozja got alil more praise for critical engagements but the overall sentiment was the exact same. You can literally search history of the forums during SB and SHB and see nothing but complaints about the content. Im not sure what's the point of even trying to say otherwise when the history proves itself. EW was specifically the turn around of sentiment for exploration zones cause there was nothing else in between patches. YoshiP was surprised because largely unpopular content suddenly became really popular which he himself pointed out. Unless you are implying the team chose to just not implement the most popular content in the game for an entire expansion just cause? Lol

These forums try to convince themselves of anything nowadays.

As for feedback, devs "cherrypicking" anything is opinion. If players overall are complaining about something, that doesn't look different from players asking for "slight" balance changes.

This is again delusion the forums teach themselves despite having classic examples of how Yoshi and co respond.

Complaints have always incited nerfs into the ground. Blame the people who complain about everything as the cause of the issues, or blame the casuals who create the environment for these MSQ/casual content nerfs to occur or blame the hardcores with their inflated egos (and DPS mentality) for the raid scene losing out on different jobs which in kind create job shortages, which in turn cause nerfs to those roles.

You and several on these forums can't handle the fact that your unwarranted complaints have in turn caused some of the worst balance changes ever. Factor in that there will always be people ready to complain about any change made, and you have a situation where Yoshi and devs can do no right.

[Dante131]

The short term memory of these forums never seizes to amaze me. Exploratory zones were largely unpopular content for their releases, specifically the biggest complaint being too grindy and just fate hopping with no real mechanics. Bozja got alil more praise for critical engagements but the overall sentiment was the exact same. You can literally search history of the forums during SB and SHB and see nothing but complaints about the content. Im not sure what's the point of even trying to say otherwise when the history proves itself. EW was specifically the turn around of sentiment for exploration zones cause there was nothing else in between patches. YoshiP was surprised because largely unpopular content suddenly became really popular which he himself pointed out. Unless you are implying the team chose to just not implement the most popular content in the game for an entire expansion just cause? Lol

These forums try to convince themselves of anything nowadays.

As for feedback, devs "cherrypicking" anything is opinion. If players overall are complaining about something, that doesn't look different from players asking for "slight" balance changes.

This is again delusion the forums teach themselves despite having classic examples of how Yoshi and co respond.

Complaints have always incited nerfs into the ground. Blame the people who complain about everything as the cause of the issues, or blame the casuals who create the environment for these MSQ/casual content nerfs to occur or blame the hardcores with their inflated egos (and DPS mentality) for the raid scene losing out on different jobs which in kind create job shortages, which in turn cause nerfs to those roles.

You and several on these forums can't handle the fact that your unwarranted complaints have in turn caused some of the worst balance changes ever. Factor in that there will always be people ready to complain about any change made, and you have a situation where Yoshi and devs can do no right.

correct me please but havent you posted in this thread earlier that no dev or someone of SE is looking into the forum stuff ?

[Havenchild]

correct me please but havent you posted in this thread earlier that no dev or someone of SE is looking into the forum stuff ?

Correction, I said (in response to comments in this thread) forum feedback has not been valued to warrant a response in the LL. The people who have argued for nerfs are both on the forums and playing the game. If they see engagement numbers to something, and its lower than normal, they tend to act in a direction akin to appeasing the most people, which tends to be more casual.

Me saying "you and several others on these forums" does not contradict my first statement. Nice try at the gotcha tho

snip.

If Eureka and Bozja were so popular, please explain why no exploratory content was present in EW?

But I digress..
SB (pre-patch) MSQ was popular, Lyse was a fan favorite, Eureka/Bozja was everyones favorite content.

The forum 2024 revisionism continues I guess.

[Dante131]

Correction, I said (in response to comments in this thread) forum feedback has not been valued to warrant a response in the LL. The people who have argued for nerfs are both on the forums and playing the game. If they see engagement numbers to something, and its lower than normal, they tend to act in a direction akin to appeasing the most people, which tends to be more casual.

Me saying "you and several others on these forums" does not contradict my first statement. Nice try at the gotcha tho



If Eureka and Bozja were so popular, please explain why no exploratory content was present in EW?

But I digress..
SB (pre-patch) MSQ was popular, Lyse was a fan favorite, Eureka/Bozja was everyones favorite content.

The forum 2024 revisionism continues I guess.

what kind of gotcha is this when i litterally tell you to correct me lol. you really have too chill more.

[Havenchild]

what kind of gotcha is this when i litterally tell you to correct me lol.

Fair.

But yeah I knew that was the comment you were referring to. It's specifically referring to the previous comments of forum feedback warranting addressing in a LL. Context matters.

[Xeronia]

Correction, I said (in response to comments in this thread) forum feedback has not been valued to warrant a response in the LL. The people who have argued for nerfs are both on the forums and playing the game. If they see engagement numbers to something, and its lower than normal, they tend to act in a direction akin to appeasing the most people, which tends to be more casual.

Me saying "you and several others on these forums" does not contradict my first statement. Nice try at the gotcha tho



If Eureka and Bozja were so popular, please explain why no exploratory content was present in EW?

But I digress..
SB (pre-patch) MSQ was popular, Lyse was a fan favorite, Eureka/Bozja was everyones favorite content.

The forum 2024 revisionism continues I guess.

Same reason ShB lacked a Deep Dungeon and EW had one, they wanted to use the budget on other content. Seriously they have answered this in an interview before when Deep Dungeon was missing in ShB. Both take a lot of development time and money.

Here is the google translated part of the interview if you do not believe me (Source-Here):

--I'd like to ask a few questions about future content. Are there plans to implement the "Deep Dungeon" content that was well received in 3.X and 4.X in patch 5.X?

Yoshida: Sorry, but we've been making a lot of new content, so we don't have the production budget to put towards this. To be honest, I wanted to have it ready as a leveling area for when the next expansion pack comes out... Although the plan is complete, we can't currently generate the funds to complete it, so we're thinking of taking a break from Deep Dungeon for now. Instead, we're preparing the farm-like gameplay we've been talking about for a while, and we're planning to prepare a lot of content centered on daily life from patch 5.3 onwards.

COVID happened during this and also probably delayed some of that.

[ForteNightshade]

YoshiP was surprised because largely unpopular content suddenly became really popular which he himself pointed out. Unless you are implying the team chose to just not implement the most popular content in the game for an entire expansion just cause?

Per Lucky Bancho's census data:

• Completion of Normal Abyssos across Level90 characters is 44.69%
• Acquisition of the Island Mandragora Mount across Level90 characters is 21.69% (16.04% of total active)
• Percentage of Level70+ characters that went at least to Eureka Pagos is 34.55% (30.38% of total active)
• Percentage of Level70+ characters that reached Elemental Level 60 is 18.93% (16.65% of total active)
• Percentage of Level80+ characters that went at least to Zadnor is 47.14% (38.67% of total active)
• Percentage of Level80+ characters that reached Resistance Rank 25 is 34.80% (28.55% of total active)
• Percentage of active character that completed the MSQ is 69.35%

So this "largely unpopular content" saw nearly 50% of the entire playerbase reach at least Zadnor. For comparison sake, the only other singular piece of content with that level of engagement is the MSQ. The supposedly unequally unpopular Eureka saw nearly 20% make it all the way to level 60, which is only obtainable by both unlocking and participating in the last zone.

Now Eureka did see a noticeable drop in participation primarily due to Pagos being widely disliked due to changes nobody really asked for. Despite those changes, nearly as many people continued to grind Eureka over Island Sanctuary. Which kind of highlights how big a flop that content was.

So... yes, by the metrics we have, they dropped what was the most popular content in Endwalker given 47% of the playerbase made it to the second zone. However, I don't ever recall Yoshida being surprised or even commenting on Bozja outside the usual. So where exactly are you getting this idea he was surprised by the supposed sudden turn around in opinion on exploratory zones?

[Striker44]

So this "largely unpopular content" saw nearly 50% of the entire playerbase reach at least Zadnor. For comparison sake, the only other singular piece of content with that level of engagement is the MSQ. The supposedly unequally unpopular Eureka saw nearly 20% make it all the way to level 60, which is only obtainable by both unlocking and participating in the last zone.

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

[Xeronia]

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

You had to do Eureka for the Stormblood relic as it was the only way to get it, I think you may be confusing the two. Bozja allowed you to do the vast majority of it outside of the exploration content (granted Castrum Lacus Litore, Delubrum Reginae, and Dalriada all had to be completed which required resistance rank and two of which you had to be in the zones to queue for).

[Ardeth]

You had to do Eureka for the Stormblood relic as it was the only way to get it, I think you may be confusing the two. Bozja allowed you to do the vast majority of it outside of the exploration content (granted Castrum Lacus Litore, Delubrum Reginae, and Dalriada all had to be completed which required resistance rank and two of which you had to be in the zones to queue for).

God I hate Zadnor soo much. They need to like 5x the xp gain to get me to go back there. I'd rather play Wow. That's how much I cannot stand Bozja. That content is so convaluted and grindy. I hate it so damn much.