Out of touch? PLL

[Havenchild]

What an assumption.
You conflate casual players with those who don’t want to play at all.
It isn’t the casual playerbase that doesn’t know how to play their job.
The casual players are those who just don’t mind to not optimize their class.

The people in this thread want more lasting content they don’t have to use PF and can just jump into like field content.

You just try to present casual players as bad players in your arguments.

Perhaps you are missing the main point being portrayed here. While it's not persay a casual vs hardcore or whatever debate, understanding how the playerbase moves enlightens to the general response of the devs.

People did complain about those quests. If YoshiP and co think these are enough of a bottleneck they nerf the contents but that also informs something like there next decision, say harder Expert dungeons (or content around that level). They are more likely to be adverse to releasing content that is more difficult (but not hardcore like savage level) if the general playerbase is "struggling"

This includes things like exploratory zones which were hugely unpopular in SB and SHB and only when they were finally not present in EW did people suddenly miss them. These forums for one cooked both of those exploratory zones to oblivion.

Even YoshiP voiced his surprise to how many people actually liked the content during EW, likely because the amount of people that did it was lower than expected regardless and suddenly several people were complaining about not having it.

[Voidmage]

Perhaps you are missing the main point being portrayed here. While it\\'s not persay a casual vs hardcore or whatever debate, understanding how the playerbase moves enlightens to the general response of the devs.

People did complain about those quests. If YoshiP and co think these are enough of a bottleneck they nerf the contents but that also informs something like there next decision, say harder Expert dungeons (or content around that level). They are more likely to be adverse to releasing content that is more difficult (but not hardcore like savage level) if the general playerbase is "struggling"

This includes things like exploratory zones which were hugely unpopular in SB and SHB and only when they were finally not present in EW did people suddenly miss them. These forums for one cooked both of those exploratory zones to oblivion.

Even YoshiP voiced his surprise to how many people actually liked the content during EW, likely because the amount of people that did it was lower than expected regardless and suddenly several people were complaining about not having it.

No.
It’s the devs responsibility to find middle ground. If they overadjust things on little feedback like the viper changes that’s on them.
Yes people did complain about those quests and got at least the same amount of pushback in the comments but instead of saying “hey we just have different difficulty settings so choose what best suits you but we also have players who liked those quests” the devs went overboard and gave us quests you can’t even fail anymore.
Like I said those are not usual casual players who complained but those who don’t even want to play. That’s like saying everyone who does ultimate is a sweating nolifer.

EW and Bozja also.
Yoshida has no right to act surprised that people miss field content when Eureka was as active as always after EW, same as Bozja.
That content was never unpopular there were just large amounts of people that disliked PARTS of them and there were large amounts of people playing it but surprise at one point those people are actually finished with it or archived what they wanted from it.
But instead of looking at the actual feedback of those who engaged with the content they again only saw the loud complaints, went overboard, overshot the finish line and would have just scrapped the content altogether if the playerbase that ACTUALLY liked that content didn’t say anything and apparently that playerbase is large enough.
Same with the relics weapon. Instead of making something for those who hate grinds they just took away from the people who liked working on their weapon.

The problem isn’t what the players give as feedback.
The problem is the devs cherry-picking what they want from that feedback to develop with the least amount of work.
That’s why we get changes where everyone in all languages and over all sites asks where the hell they even get that feedback from.

Edit:
And again, don’t throw casuals and those who don’t even want to play together.
One does content in their own pace over a long time and is happy with not completing everything.
The others are standing around and are annoyed if they have to click to queue for a dungeon to get tomestones.

[Stormfur]

I'm curious, what did the JP side say about the PLL?

[Havenchild]

snip.

The short term memory of these forums never seizes to amaze me. Exploratory zones were largely unpopular content for their releases, specifically the biggest complaint being too grindy and just fate hopping with no real mechanics. Bozja got alil more praise for critical engagements but the overall sentiment was the exact same. You can literally search history of the forums during SB and SHB and see nothing but complaints about the content. Im not sure what's the point of even trying to say otherwise when the history proves itself. EW was specifically the turn around of sentiment for exploration zones cause there was nothing else in between patches. YoshiP was surprised because largely unpopular content suddenly became really popular which he himself pointed out. Unless you are implying the team chose to just not implement the most popular content in the game for an entire expansion just cause? Lol

These forums try to convince themselves of anything nowadays.

As for feedback, devs "cherrypicking" anything is opinion. If players overall are complaining about something, that doesn't look different from players asking for "slight" balance changes.

This is again delusion the forums teach themselves despite having classic examples of how Yoshi and co respond.

Complaints have always incited nerfs into the ground. Blame the people who complain about everything as the cause of the issues, or blame the casuals who create the environment for these MSQ/casual content nerfs to occur or blame the hardcores with their inflated egos (and DPS mentality) for the raid scene losing out on different jobs which in kind create job shortages, which in turn cause nerfs to those roles.

You and several on these forums can't handle the fact that your unwarranted complaints have in turn caused some of the worst balance changes ever. Factor in that there will always be people ready to complain about any change made, and you have a situation where Yoshi and devs can do no right.

[Dante131]

The short term memory of these forums never seizes to amaze me. Exploratory zones were largely unpopular content for their releases, specifically the biggest complaint being too grindy and just fate hopping with no real mechanics. Bozja got alil more praise for critical engagements but the overall sentiment was the exact same. You can literally search history of the forums during SB and SHB and see nothing but complaints about the content. Im not sure what's the point of even trying to say otherwise when the history proves itself. EW was specifically the turn around of sentiment for exploration zones cause there was nothing else in between patches. YoshiP was surprised because largely unpopular content suddenly became really popular which he himself pointed out. Unless you are implying the team chose to just not implement the most popular content in the game for an entire expansion just cause? Lol

These forums try to convince themselves of anything nowadays.

As for feedback, devs "cherrypicking" anything is opinion. If players overall are complaining about something, that doesn't look different from players asking for "slight" balance changes.

This is again delusion the forums teach themselves despite having classic examples of how Yoshi and co respond.

Complaints have always incited nerfs into the ground. Blame the people who complain about everything as the cause of the issues, or blame the casuals who create the environment for these MSQ/casual content nerfs to occur or blame the hardcores with their inflated egos (and DPS mentality) for the raid scene losing out on different jobs which in kind create job shortages, which in turn cause nerfs to those roles.

You and several on these forums can't handle the fact that your unwarranted complaints have in turn caused some of the worst balance changes ever. Factor in that there will always be people ready to complain about any change made, and you have a situation where Yoshi and devs can do no right.

correct me please but havent you posted in this thread earlier that no dev or someone of SE is looking into the forum stuff ?

[Thurmnmurmn]

correct me please but havent you posted in this thread earlier that no dev or someone of SE is looking into the forum stuff ?

She's a forum user and she just said it herself, forums users have short term memory issues.

[Voidmage]

snip

Spare me. I was there when Eureka was new.
Yes there was criticism at the beginning for the first two zones but then Pyros came out and people were starting to enjoy it more.
I still remember the mount taxis and people walking huge distances just to resurrect other players.
Those in Eureka were enjoying it to the most part with the typical snark here and there.
This forum also while negative had constructive criticism back then like the level range for groups to get exp, Pagos level design etc. All good and right feedback that was implemented and general consensus is that Pyros and Hydatos are seen in a positive light. Was there bullcrap negative comments? Yes but a that is always there.
Eureka is alive even today, the bunny fates got praise even back then.THAT is a sign of good design. If the Devs didn’t see that this content has its fans after Bozja then I don’t know what to say.

Bozja got the most flack because of its ugly maps and the bad queueing for the raids the rest was normal to positive received with a mix of saying some things were better in Eureka or that the relics where badly implemented.

Less players in this content than expected also doesn’t mean anything from the person who did all to get Hrothgar into the game while saying it doesn’t matter if almost no one plays them.

You all try to present that content reception as the Antichrist itself.
Yes there was criticism, yes there was hard criticism but so many people in these zones enjoyed that content and over time more and more players joined and saw how it actually was.
The players who were complaining in Bozja still? Not the same who liked that content.
Most often the players wanting stuff back are not the ones who wanted it gone, same as the relic weapons in EW and written is this forum to death by now.

Heck Bozja raids got actually lots of praise.
You can also stick your snark elsewhere. Yoshida was surprised? Well he was also surprised that Bakool JaJa would be liked.

No I do not blame the players giving feedback or the casuals (who you again just insult without reason).
I blame the devs. At the end of the day they decide what to do and how to balance things.
They decide what feedback to implement.

Unwarranted complaints? What is unwarranted? Expecting more long lasting content? Expecting headgear actually working or maybe expecting the gold saucer actually having something to do? Expecting them not to just axe content because they think it isn’t liked instead of asking why?(something they THEMSELF said they did and wanted to stop doing)

Tldr and I won’t respond anymore because I said all that I wanted.

The devs decide what to do.
Feedback is important.
Neither casuals nor hardcore players destroy the game, they only give feedback.
The devs have an obligation to think before they act. The viper changes shortly after its implementation or the backtrack on the blm changes are a good example.

If Eureka and Bozja were so popular, please explain why no exploratory content was present in EW?

Because devs?
What do I know? For all the reasons one could be because deep dungeons are far easier to make or because EW was the time where they went hardcore into the “let’s give nothing longlasting”.
If Eureka and Bozja weren’t popular then they would be dead right now but you know what they are not?

SB MSQ was popular, Lyse was a fan favorite, Eureka/Bozja was everyones favorite content.

The forum 2024 revisionism continues I guess.

Sure let’s go with that. Sounds romantic.

[Havenchild]

correct me please but havent you posted in this thread earlier that no dev or someone of SE is looking into the forum stuff ?

Correction, I said (in response to comments in this thread) forum feedback has not been valued to warrant a response in the LL. The people who have argued for nerfs are both on the forums and playing the game. If they see engagement numbers to something, and its lower than normal, they tend to act in a direction akin to appeasing the most people, which tends to be more casual.

Me saying "you and several others on these forums" does not contradict my first statement. Nice try at the gotcha tho

snip.

If Eureka and Bozja were so popular, please explain why no exploratory content was present in EW?

But I digress..
SB (pre-patch) MSQ was popular, Lyse was a fan favorite, Eureka/Bozja was everyones favorite content.

The forum 2024 revisionism continues I guess.

[Thurmnmurmn]

If Eureka and Bozja were so popular, please explain why no exploratory content was present in EW?

Because SE wanted to try something different with the relic weapon and island sanctuary. And now they're bringing field operations back due to user complaints.
I don't think it was related to low engagement at all. Using lalachievements.com it shows that CLL and DR were cleared by about 65% of the player base. Eureka/BA is considerably lower but so was the in game population back then.

[Havenchild]

Because SE wanted to try something different with the relic weapon and island sanctuary. And now they're bringing field operations back due to user complaints.
I don't think it was related to low engagement at all. Using lalachievements.com it shows that CLL and DR were cleared by about 65% of the player base. Eureka/BA is considerably lower but so was the in game population back then.

For the record, what made Bozja more popular and have a longer lifespan wasn't specifically the content itself (even though it was better than Eureka) but rather that for a time period in SHB, prior to the rebalancing of dungeon exp, Bozja was unilaterally the fastest way to acquire exp for alt jobs once MSQ was finished and all regions unlocked. It was the de facto power leveling location.
I highly doubt exploratory content, without the EXP incentive while remaining equally grindy as previous versions were, will suddenly see more engagement than historically has been.