Out of touch? PLL

[Xeronia]

Correction, I said (in response to comments in this thread) forum feedback has not been valued to warrant a response in the LL. The people who have argued for nerfs are both on the forums and playing the game. If they see engagement numbers to something, and its lower than normal, they tend to act in a direction akin to appeasing the most people, which tends to be more casual.

Me saying "you and several others on these forums" does not contradict my first statement. Nice try at the gotcha tho



If Eureka and Bozja were so popular, please explain why no exploratory content was present in EW?

But I digress..
SB (pre-patch) MSQ was popular, Lyse was a fan favorite, Eureka/Bozja was everyones favorite content.

The forum 2024 revisionism continues I guess.

Same reason ShB lacked a Deep Dungeon and EW had one, they wanted to use the budget on other content. Seriously they have answered this in an interview before when Deep Dungeon was missing in ShB. Both take a lot of development time and money.

Here is the google translated part of the interview if you do not believe me (Source-Here):

--I'd like to ask a few questions about future content. Are there plans to implement the "Deep Dungeon" content that was well received in 3.X and 4.X in patch 5.X?

Yoshida: Sorry, but we've been making a lot of new content, so we don't have the production budget to put towards this. To be honest, I wanted to have it ready as a leveling area for when the next expansion pack comes out... Although the plan is complete, we can't currently generate the funds to complete it, so we're thinking of taking a break from Deep Dungeon for now. Instead, we're preparing the farm-like gameplay we've been talking about for a while, and we're planning to prepare a lot of content centered on daily life from patch 5.3 onwards.

COVID happened during this and also probably delayed some of that.

[ForteNightshade]

YoshiP was surprised because largely unpopular content suddenly became really popular which he himself pointed out. Unless you are implying the team chose to just not implement the most popular content in the game for an entire expansion just cause?

Per Lucky Bancho's census data:

• Completion of Normal Abyssos across Level90 characters is 44.69%
• Acquisition of the Island Mandragora Mount across Level90 characters is 21.69% (16.04% of total active)
• Percentage of Level70+ characters that went at least to Eureka Pagos is 34.55% (30.38% of total active)
• Percentage of Level70+ characters that reached Elemental Level 60 is 18.93% (16.65% of total active)
• Percentage of Level80+ characters that went at least to Zadnor is 47.14% (38.67% of total active)
• Percentage of Level80+ characters that reached Resistance Rank 25 is 34.80% (28.55% of total active)
• Percentage of active character that completed the MSQ is 69.35%

So this "largely unpopular content" saw nearly 50% of the entire playerbase reach at least Zadnor. For comparison sake, the only other singular piece of content with that level of engagement is the MSQ. The supposedly unequally unpopular Eureka saw nearly 20% make it all the way to level 60, which is only obtainable by both unlocking and participating in the last zone.

Now Eureka did see a noticeable drop in participation primarily due to Pagos being widely disliked due to changes nobody really asked for. Despite those changes, nearly as many people continued to grind Eureka over Island Sanctuary. Which kind of highlights how big a flop that content was.

So... yes, by the metrics we have, they dropped what was the most popular content in Endwalker given 47% of the playerbase made it to the second zone. However, I don't ever recall Yoshida being surprised or even commenting on Bozja outside the usual. So where exactly are you getting this idea he was surprised by the supposed sudden turn around in opinion on exploratory zones?

[Striker44]

So this "largely unpopular content" saw nearly 50% of the entire playerbase reach at least Zadnor. For comparison sake, the only other singular piece of content with that level of engagement is the MSQ. The supposedly unequally unpopular Eureka saw nearly 20% make it all the way to level 60, which is only obtainable by both unlocking and participating in the last zone.

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

[Xeronia]

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

You had to do Eureka for the Stormblood relic as it was the only way to get it, I think you may be confusing the two. Bozja allowed you to do the vast majority of it outside of the exploration content (granted Castrum Lacus Litore, Delubrum Reginae, and Dalriada all had to be completed which required resistance rank and two of which you had to be in the zones to queue for).

[CNitsah]

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

I feel like the complaints about Eureka Bozja always has been about the form than its objective. Sure Bozja/Zadnor is perfectible, but it does well in filling the role of that kind of content : being content with high shelf life. Maybe I'm biased because I kinda like htat content, but I feel the real problem with the removal of exploratory zone isn't really because people loved to run fates over and over, but because it was a content with low barrier entry (you could join and leave as you wished without penalizing other players) and high life, which made it the perfect content to run during off periods. Heck, I'm still running Eureka right now for that exact reason.

[Luluya]

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

I've seen this poster bend over backwards at every possible opportunity to defend the big company and its decisions, but this is the first time I've seen them blatantly lie while doing so, huh.

[Supersnow845]

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

You didn't need Eureka to do the relic weapon from its expansion, and notice how less than 20% of the playerbase actually took that all the way to max Elemental Level. I'd put a major caution sign up before thinking people "doing" Bozja/Zadnor meant that they actually enjoyed it.

If Bozja would have failed without the relic and it was the relic that kept the content alive then why was their such a small drop off in players between arriving in Zadnor and reaching resistance rank 25

The requirements for the relic end at delubrum, after that the relic has no relation to Bozja. If you were only in Bozja for the relic you’d drop immediately after delubrum, but the stats say that 90% of people who completed delubrum reached resistance rank 25

I just hate how you're punished for dying. The xp is terrible. And the majority of the time, the zones are dead. If I could casually go in fail, die solo FATEs, etc. I would like it more. Unfortunately, I have to worry about my instance being full and other players being in the zone of Zadnor that I am in. It's terrible. Think of the idea of making an exploratory zone that punishes you for exploration. It's moronic. I get it's to emulate 11, but 11 was terrible. It's such archaic garbage. And if I never finish it, then so be it.

The punishment for dying is so negligible that it’s meaningless and if the zone is dead then it scales just to you which means you can solo the fates and solo them damn easy with the correct essences. I used to hope my instance would lock and everyone leaves so that I could solo everything, if it was busy I’d follow the crowd because that was always the best experience per hour

A lot of the Bozja complaints I’ve seen seem to not understand how powerful the essence system is

[Tint]

It's heavily worth noting that Bozja/Zadnor was directly tied to the relic weapons in that expansion, so just looking at % of people that "did" something may give you an inaccurate view of how many people liked or enjoyed doing it. Take me for example - I'd be one of the people who made it to Zadnor but never got Rank 25. Personally, I found it a slog, and only did it because it was the most efficient way at various points to progress the relic. It was such a slog to me that I actually did the final step of the relic weapon the really long way just to avoid having to do more of Zadnor. And while I've liked the approaches earlier expansions used of using the relic weapons to promote older content, I didn't particularly object to the tomestone approach, either, and found them both of them preferable to funneling me bigtime into the exploratory zone.

If relic grind enjoyers would go such lenghts to argue for savage raid removal, how would people react? I mean savage raid is clearly less popular than Eureka / Bozja was. And I would argue most people also only do it for the rewards, so they clearly don't enjoy savage raiding. I mean Criterion had no proper rewards - how popular was it? Getting the savage raid weapons for 1500 tomestones would be so much more enjoyable for the majority of people than actually forcing themself through the content as well.

[Erzaa]

Per Lucky Bancho's census data:

• Completion of Normal Abyssos across Level90 characters is 44.69%
• Acquisition of the Island Mandragora Mount across Level90 characters is 21.69% (16.04% of total active)
• Percentage of Level70+ characters that went at least to Eureka Pagos is 34.55% (30.38% of total active)
• Percentage of Level70+ characters that reached Elemental Level 60 is 18.93% (16.65% of total active)
• Percentage of Level80+ characters that went at least to Zadnor is 47.14% (38.67% of total active)
• Percentage of Level80+ characters that reached Resistance Rank 25 is 34.80% (28.55% of total active)
• Percentage of active character that completed the MSQ is 69.35%

So this "largely unpopular content" saw nearly 50% of the entire playerbase reach at least Zadnor. For comparison sake, the only other singular piece of content with that level of engagement is the MSQ. The supposedly unequally unpopular Eureka saw nearly 20% make it all the way to level 60, which is only obtainable by both unlocking and participating in the last zone.

Now Eureka did see a noticeable drop in participation primarily due to Pagos being widely disliked due to changes nobody really asked for. Despite those changes, nearly as many people continued to grind Eureka over Island Sanctuary. Which kind of highlights how big a flop that content was.

So... yes, by the metrics we have, they dropped what was the most popular content in Endwalker given 47% of the playerbase made it to the second zone. However, I don't ever recall Yoshida being surprised or even commenting on Bozja outside the usual. So where exactly are you getting this idea he was surprised by the supposed sudden turn around in opinion on exploratory zones?

Why are you using acquisition of the Mandragora Mounts, which are either purchasable with cowries, or the Adenium which takes like over 6 months to get (not to mention how hideous those mounts are that many players may not even want them?), as a measure of Island Sanctuary participation, but only using Elemental Level 60 as a measure of Eureka participation?

What percentage of players have the Ozma mount and Elemental Gear +2 and continued to grind BA after reaching Elemental Level 60 and completing the Eureka storyline?

What percentage of players have completed a max rank of Island Sanctuary and possibly bought the actual popular mounts?

[Supersnow845]

Why are you using acquisition of the Mandragora Mounts, which are either purchasable with cowries, or the Adenium which takes like over 6 months to get (not to mention how hideous those mounts are that many players may not even want them?), as a measure of Island Sanctuary participation, but only using Elemental Level 60 as a measure of Eureka participation?

What percentage of players have the Ozma mount and Elemental Gear +2 and continued to grind BA after reaching Elemental Level 60 and completing the Eureka storyline?

What percentage of players have completed a max rank of Island Sanctuary and possibly bought the actual popular mounts?

It’s because while elemental level 60 is public information IS rank 20 is not

Is there a portion of the population who is at 20 who don’t have either of these two mounts………yes. Is it likely anywhere near big enough to make up for the almost double participation rate that Bozja has, extremely likely not