Stormblood Scholar could be back in 8.0

[Zaytex]

lol at the idea of 8.0 fixing healers and making them interesting when SE has tripled down on yet another expansion (SHB, EW, DT) with their design.

Just play another role guys, clearly that's what the developers want at this point.

[Post]

Yeah people tend to rose-goggle old designs too much. Some individual elements were nice, but it's important to keep in mind that while the loss of a proper pet that could be hit/killed is sad in some ways - no more pet classes - there's a reason it was removed, and that was that some boss-fights were hell to do with pet jobs in the group, while for others it made no difference. And the community wants more and more and tighter balancing, so such differences are wanted less and less by the very playerbase that also wants all those "unique" (and hence inherently not balanceable) skills back.

And in the case of our two fairies in particular, it was just 1 fairy. The other one was nice for the lulz, but only used in content where it really didn't matter.

What fights in your mind were hell to do with pets?

And in my experience, Selene was used when you needed the utilities its actions provided, from Silence in ARR/HW because your group lacked two jobs that could for whatever reason to Fey Caress in HW/StB when a fight called for dispels, as well as any fight that you didn't need Whispering Dawn or extra mitigation for (most, after your group was geared or a fight was dated). That's plenty enough a reason for it to exist, because the game exists beyond savage and ultimate raiding and the job design used to and aught to reflect that.

[Tunda]

What fights in your mind were hell to do with pets?

And in my experience, Selene was used when you needed the utilities its actions provided, from Silence in ARR/HW because your group lacked two jobs that could for whatever reason to Fey Caress in HW/StB when a fight called for dispels, as well as any fight that you didn't need Whispering Dawn or extra mitigation for (most, after your group was geared or a fight was dated). That's plenty enough a reason for it to exist, because the game exists beyond savage and ultimate raiding and the job design used to and aught to reflect that.

I agree,

but utility healer is an Astrologian thing.. I love the fact that they removed it from scholar

[Silver-Strider]

I agree,

but utility healer is an Astrologian thing.. I love the fact that they removed it from scholar

That's the most selfish take I've ever seen.

[Ramiee]

I'd argue it cannot be, but eh, I can easily see how this is a very personal opinion thing.

To me personally, "managing" my pet doesn't just mean pressing a button to queue a cast of the pet. That's just me casting the spell, but with a minor extra delay on the spell going off. Just like now, that reduces the pet to a DoT or HoT with fancier graphics. Might as well let me cast all the spells but originate the graphics from the pet and th.... oh. Oh that's exactly what they did, yeah.

Of course, making the resource for these non-pet-abilities work better, that's a given. Current fairie gauge -> union is pointless, as is the aetherflow charges I'd argue. A leftover from how cobbled together Scholar feels given how often it was reworked.

Pets can be immortal specifically for support roles unless the pet is tied to something that isn't key like healing to the role. If your fae as SCH were exclusively damage dealers I think them having HP would be more fine because a healers priorities should always be healing then damage but currently since the faes are part of your healing kit they have to be immortal.

But other forms of managament can be attached to a healing pet, you could have your fairy do far more healing then Kardia for example but have it have MP that drains so you have to manage the mp and restore it through different systems such as giving it some of your MP for example, this along with a dps systems on scholar means you can expand further on the whole trade healing for damage system past just ED so early in prog stages you might have to sacrifice your personal dps by giving up MP for DPS moves to your fairy for stronger healing then over time optimise a fight to not need give up MP and deal more damage. Or they can try a completely different system such as giving the fairy far stronger healing but it being position based so you have to place your fairy in areas to hit who you want to heal. I think the fairy can still have management past HP.

[Carighan]

I think the fairy can still have management past HP.

Ah, that's what you mean. Yeah, makes sense. And granted, I thought immediately of WoW-style move-pet-around-boss-AoEs-manually management, but of course other types of management are possible, yeah.

I would envision a situation where the fairy is the primary healer. I'm her steward. I make sure she's not dead, respectively - at great resource cost - replace her if she does die to something. In turn she's an extremely strong healer, that's the whole idea behind a pet class after all: You have to let the AI control part of your gameplay, in return for that your raw output potential is much much greater.

How to do this in detail is tricky of course. There's a reason all MMOs slowly remove their pet classes as they age. DAoC even got rid of their Necromancer a while ago, and that was one of the few designs that due to its unique setup (the summoning Necro essentially disappears when the pet is summoned) worked better than virtually any other one in the past 20+ years. But while the chances of getting pet management and in return pet agency back are... slim, to put it mildly, I like the idea of giving us a lot more custom management. Even if it's "just" the pet also sharing our mana pool, and us having limited options in controller her mana usage or so.

[elioaiko]

I agree,

but utility healer is an Astrologian thing.. I love the fact that they removed it from scholar

The irony of this quote is that AST only had real utility sans mitigation and raid buffs in SB. SCH has Expedience now. But any meaningful utility on the healers is long gone now.

I hope you were trolling when you typed this out.

I love AST but these ST utilities are so watered down to the point where I question why didn't the devs just give us back the old Royal Road system.

The devs doubling down on AST design is also funny bc they keep insisting that the cards are one way and then changing it in the next expansion.

AST no longer even feels like AST. They've changed it so much that the cards might as well not even be there.

Either they should have given us SB AST back in full or kept ShB AST–which I'm sure a lot of ppl hate but fail to realize is the 2nd best version of AST. The cards felt engaging to the kit.

But anyways, the conversation is about SCH. I think they should have brought back Miasma and Bane.

[BabyYoda]

The irony of this quote is that AST only had real utility sans mitigation and raid buffs in SB. SCH has Expedience now. But any meaningful utility on the healers is long gone now.

I hope you were trolling when you typed this out.

I love AST but these ST utilities are so watered down to the point where I question why didn't the devs just give us back the old Royal Road system.

The devs doubling down on AST design is also funny bc they keep insisting that the cards are one way and then changing it in the next expansion.

AST no longer even feels like AST. They've changed it so much that the cards might as well not even be there.

Either they should have given us SB AST back in full or kept ShB AST–which I'm sure a lot of ppl hate but fail to realize is the 2nd best version of AST. The cards felt engaging to the kit.

But anyways, the conversation is about SCH. I think they should have brought back Miasma and Bane.

You can disagree as you want but in my opinion,

Card system feel like something doesn't fit for healer
Card system could be way better for dps support job something like Dancer or bard
That's why astro in pvp is so good to play
Because it doesn't feel like healer but more to dps who have utility to heal

But other aspects feel like healing job I agree
That's why they rework Card system to make it more healing thing but still it doesn't work if feel janky and lacking it's fun aspect..

I would love to play astro dps version similar to bard and dancer
I wish

[Sylvain]

As he mentioned

You can cast all kind of healing skills but it will cost more MP and cd will be longer

I think this is a good tradeoff for job designed around that

MMM i rechecked and all I see are our current spells with "consumes x numbers of stacks". I don't see any CD reduction anywhere.
At 3 stacks you get a healing buff
At 6 stacks you get a damage buff
At 9 stacks you can summon an extra fairy.

The issue is that everything you do litterally reduces your damage. Every ogcd and even gcd.
We know from experience that any option between DPS and healing results in DPS being favored unless absolutely necessary.

I understand people aren't particularly happy with the current scholar and everyone feel they can do a better design by thinking for a whole 5minutes but men just ponder for more than 5min and try to think how really, THAT would work out at every level of play.

It's litterally current SCH with
- longer CD
- restriction on ogcd usage through poison stack consumption
- the healer rewarded for litterally not healing as every single healing action reduces the poison stack.
- the only healer which would loose a whooping 300potency DoT if it stops dpsing for 6s. (very casual friendly I'm gonna say).
- Huge DPS loss everytime the boss leaves, even for a mehr 6s.

Since every healing skill are tied to a DPS counterpart, it means that this would heal only if absolutely necessary, making it by far the worst co-healer in existence.

[Ramiee]

The problem with healers is the same with tanks.
Sure in theory the idea of a healer that isn't as good at healing as the other healers but does more damage sounds good on paper but in reality it becomes a balancing nightmare just like a tank that does more damage but is easier to die.
Part of the reason ED works on SCH is because you only use it when theres no need to use your aetherstacks and know when you next need them you can regain them or use recitation, you can't really have a support thats traded off to be bad at their support role but good at damage because then why not just replace it with a DPS at that point. If you need healing then you'd take the better healer. Its why the whole WHM design idea that people talk about procing sacred sight off of a cure or just having heals in general combined with DPS is very iffy for me, I prefer having the healing and DPS completely seperated because then you can balance them individually and you won't have the endgame version of freecure procers being sacred sight procers.