Warrior Rework to Balance the job

[Tunda]

My principles are:

• implementing risk and rewards aspect into the job
• Job identity

Warriors issue is that it encourage to activate cooldowns as soon as possible with no idea in mind

Here is how to fix it:

Passive:
Remove current tank mastry passive

Warrior will have 50% extra HP
Warrior heal 3% of their max HP of each attack action




1 2 3 combo will have 2 different effects
Storm Eye: damage increase to next cleave to 8%
Vitality Surge: life steal increase for next cleave to 6%

1 2 3 combo will give you 50 stack of rage

Inner release rework:
Once Warrior is under inner release
Inner release will have 2 different effect based on the buff storms eye or Vitality Surge.

If Storm eye:

Increase damage to 15% but consume health 3% for each attack action

If Vitality Surge:

Healing increase for all action to 6% of all actions

Inner release window is higher at least 30 second

Cooldown 60 sec


This is just an idea that I think could give extra utility and risk and reward aspect to the job

[Atreides]

The majority of WAR players are happy, and this is well represented in the game. Major reworks are usually implemented to attract more players to a specific job. However, reworks can be hit or miss, and there is no point in reworking a class that is already popular and well liked by the players.

[GoatOfWar]

The majority of WAR players are happy,

Because it's the single best tank at everything besides damage, where it falls behind by a tiny bit behind Gunbreaker, which they're already starting to complain about.
Wait til they rework Dark knight (again) and it does something- *anything* better than Warrior. We'll go over the exact same motions again.
''Buff war wahh wahh'' and then at the end of the expansion everyone goes.. ''Then why should i play Dark knight?'' Followed by the all too familiar ''It needs a rework''

[Somnolence]

The majority of WAR players are happy, and this is well represented in the game.

If you to to the WAR lounge on The Balance discord and they are posting cat pics, then WAR is in a good state.

[Mapleine]

The majority of WAR players are happy

I bet lol, so were Game Shark owners back in the day

[whiskeybravo]

I bet lol, so were Game Shark owners back in the day

The comment you quoted was the first in response to the suggestion WAR needs some sort of "rework" to "balance" it. It does not need a rework to balance within the current meta, and the OP has long since abandoned this thread and their abysmal ideas.

Like, I have every reason to level the other tanks but absolutely 0 desire to do so. Now if in some timeline WAR was bottom tier for the last 5+ years would I feel the same? Hard to say. I've always played WAR, ever since 1st coil in ARR when I had to pop vitality potions as an extra CD lol. At the very least I've no desire for a "rework", and I don't get the impression any other WAR does either (with the exception of those who seem to want a rework to tank gameplay in general).

Regarding the actual conversation taking place..

TBH it sounds to me like this is largely just beating a dead horse. There are good suggestions here by many people but it ultimately boils down to the direction SE decides to take. If dungeons are just meant to be casual ~15 min encounters then there's little hope of implementing any interesting or substantial changes along these lines. Personally I get the impression this is the direction they lean towards.

Healers can complain about not having much to do if tanks heal too much, but what are they going to do otherwise? There's no additional layer of gameplay that exists, just dps or heal. AST at least has cards to play with, but even that's pretty shallow engagement. And it's not much different on the tank front. But I see a big difference in that a core responsibility of tanking is to alleviate the burden on a healer. Maybe BW is too strong right now, but it certainly fulfills that function and it's both rewarding and enjoyable to execute your role responsibilities (even if, yes, it too is a bit shallow). So healers can say we're taking away from their job but any change would take away an aspect of our role too.

It just circles back to what is the level of challenge, if any, SE intends for any given content to have. If the general direction is to keep things on the casual side for dungeons, and empower tanks to greatly alleviate the burden on a healer for efficient completion, then indeed they need to make sure each tank has equally viable and effective options for doing so. I mean, I for one would like a reason to finish leveling and maybe even occasionally play as another tank. Even if WAR was significantly nerfed I don't think I would switch, the other tanks would presumably still be lacking what they lack now so really there'd still be no point.

[AmiableApkallu]

But I see a big difference in that a core responsibility of tanking is to alleviate the burden on a healer.

The core responsibility of tanking is to hold aggro, to direct incoming damage towards yourself instead of letting it hit the party, or failing that, to try and reduce it.

Restoring HP to yourself or the party has nothing to do with that. That's for the healers to take care of. That's why they exist in the tank-healer-DPS trinity.

[Supersnow845]

The core responsibility of tanking is to hold aggro, to direct incoming damage towards yourself instead of letting it hit the party, or failing that, to try and reduce it.

Restoring HP to yourself or the party has nothing to do with that. That's for the healers to take care of. That's why they exist in the tank-healer-DPS trinity.

This is basically the core reason why tanks and healers will never agree on how to fix healers

Tanks think that being an off healer is part of their role design while healers believe that tanks should hold agro and allow them to heal

[PyurBlue]

TBH it sounds to me like this is largely just beating a dead horse. There are good suggestions here by many people but it ultimately boils down to the direction SE decides to take. If dungeons are just meant to be casual ~15 min encounters then there's little hope of implementing any interesting or substantial changes along these lines. Personally I get the impression this is the direction they lean towards.

Dungeons can stay casual. Encounter design is a separate issue and WAR is getting singled out because when you're healing one it's far less engaging than healing other tanks. At least most tanks require some healing. WAR unfortunately reduces healer to a one attack button and a DoT. Casual doesn't equate to being able to tab out mid content.

Healers can complain about not having much to do if tanks heal too much, but what are they going to do otherwise? There's no additional layer of gameplay that exists, just dps or heal.

The dungeon formula isn't fundamentally broken. If damage is too low that's easy to fix. If there is going to be a healer in the party though, the other party members can't be self sufficient. Some in this thread have claimed that healer complaints are misplaced, and dissatisfaction directed at WAR should be focused elsewhere, but that's totally wrong. If WAR wasn't problematic, it wouldn't have been given any special attention.

it's both rewarding and enjoyable to execute your role responsibilities (even if, yes, it too is a bit shallow)

Hence the complaints. WAR prevents healer enjoyment. Is the fun of WAR really from constant full self heals? BW could remain if the healing was reduced. That wouldn't break dungeons and would still give WAR some control over healing.

It just circles back to what is the level of challenge, if any, SE intends for any given content to have. If the general direction is to keep things on the casual side for dungeons, and empower tanks to greatly alleviate the burden on a healer for efficient completion, then indeed they need to make sure each tank has equally viable and effective options for doing so. I mean, I for one would like a reason to finish leveling and maybe even occasionally play as another tank. Even if WAR was significantly nerfed I don't think I would switch, the other tanks would presumably still be lacking what they lack now so really there'd still be no point.

If equally viable means all tanks get BW, dungeon healing would have no value. Absolutely zero. Ahead of any responsibility to alleviate healer burden is the need to make the game worth playing.

[whiskeybravo]

Dungeons can stay casual. Encounter design is a separate issue and WAR is getting singled out because when you're healing one it's far less engaging than healing other tanks. At least most tanks require some healing. WAR unfortunately reduces healer to a one attack button and a DoT. Casual doesn't equate to being able to tab out mid content.

That's fine except there are all different levels of healers. If you're a savage or ultimate main healer then the "challenge" of a daily dungeon or leveling session is completely different than someone who only goes healer to fill a role with friends, for example, or otherwise casual types of players. Like I mentioned previously, from my brief experience pretty much every tank except WAR is guaranteed to die at least once when I'm on healer lol

The dungeon formula isn't fundamentally broken. If damage is too low that's easy to fix. If there is going to be a healer in the party though, the other party members can't be self sufficient. Some in this thread have claimed that healer complaints are misplaced, and dissatisfaction directed at WAR should be focused elsewhere, but that's totally wrong. If WAR wasn't problematic, it wouldn't have been given any special attention.

I still don't really get this perspective. I mean, healers contributing damage to clear stuff faster is far more meaningful in most cases. I'd be willing to bet if healers had a more interesting damage kit there'd be a lot more appreciation for a tank being able to sustain itself for longer periods of time. So I guess I'd be in the camp that claims your complaints are misplaced. Not invalid, given the current circumstances, just a sort of can't see the forest for the trees feel. And you even sort of alluded to it yourself with "reducing healers to one attack button and a DoT"

Hence the complaints. WAR prevents healer enjoyment. Is the fun of WAR really from constant full self heals? BW could remain if the healing was reduced. That wouldn't break dungeons and would still give WAR some control over healing.

"Constant full self heals" WAR has always had some aspect of self healing, as Launched mentioned dating back to Bloodbath and OG IB. There have been many different iterations on it throughout the years, and I can't think of any time it's self-healing has been in a trivial or insignificant state. I haven't denied accepting a nerf to BW, I know first hand it ends up being overheal quite often anyways. But nothing about nerfing BW makes the other tanks feel more enjoyable to play IMO. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's not as bad as the [DRK Complaint Section] has suggested for the last 5-6 years. But I literally just feel like telling the healer "sorry bro nothing else I can do" when I play another tank.

If equally viable means all tanks get BW, dungeon healing would have no value. Absolutely zero. Ahead of any responsibility to alleviate healer burden is the need to make the game worth playing.

This is taking the argument to an unnecessary extreme. See above comments.