Warrior Rework to Balance the job

[Derio]

WAR is the most played Tank. It is the most purchased job boosted on mogstation and has the most self sustain for OGCD on a tank. The job is super balanced. Majority of players do not want a WAR rework.

[Tunda]

WAR is the most played Tank. It is the most purchased job boosted on mogstation and has the most self sustain for OGCD on a tank. The job is super balanced. Majority of players do not want a WAR rework.

Warrior feels good even with 30% of the healing he has now

Warrior broke the game and trinity system

Warrior can do medium damage
But very high defense and high healing

No tank can match the job nor healers

Shake it off could be level 100 ability for healer job not a warrior

[aiqa]

WAR is the most played Tank. It is the most purchased job boosted on mogstation and has the most self sustain for OGCD on a tank. The job is super balanced. Majority of players do not want a WAR rework.

A hugely overtuned job is the most used job. I am so surprised.

There's no trinity in dungeon we've already established that.

We?

You can complete dungeons with 4 DPS, 4 healers or 4 tanks. The trinity isn't broken it's simply not applied, if it was broken it would've been in all content.

The game enforces trinity in roulettes, so it's obviously intended. And something can be broken in specific content.

And possible is not the same as optimal. Generally people consider speed the metric to optimize dungeons. The runs I've seen with a full dps team were very far from optimal. The most common setup for optimal runs is tank + dps x3. The top 100 dungeon speed scores on FFlogs don't even have any healers, in any of the 3 endgame dungeons. And randomly clicking through the teams I don't see any full dps teams.

I don't mind a non-standard team completing content, as long as it's not obviously the most optimal way.

That's like saying your car is broken because the road is muddy. Obviously, it makes no sense, since on any other terrain your car functions fine.

If your car can only move forward on completely flat roads, and struggles to a halt when there is a little mud on the road, I would very much call it broken.

[Rithy255]

WAR is the most played Tank. It is the most purchased job boosted on mogstation and has the most self sustain for OGCD on a tank. The job is super balanced. Majority of players do not want a WAR rework.

Most played doesn't mean most balanced.
a DPS job can do 2x the damage of all DPS jobs, it would certainly be the most played and purchased job, doesn't make it balanced.

Warriors healing in AOE situations creates a unfun environment for healers, gameplay for the warrior shouldn't take away from the healer's gameplay, Warrior in single target still has a AOE heal with shielding and regen, has regens practically on every cooldown and more self healing ontop of that, the shortest invul ect.

I don't think we should be balancing based off play rate, usually a high play rate is a indicator of the job being over tuned.

[Ramiee]

I don't think we should be balancing based off play rate, usually a high play rate is a indicator of the job being over tuned.

Id argue its more sign of braindeadness. Considering SMN is pretty weak but still the most played dps because its really really really easy.

[Rithy255]

Id argue its more sign of braindeadness. Considering SMN is pretty weak but still the most played dps because its really really really easy.

It's a mix of both, Summoner in endwalker was at least the "meta" caster, due to how it's mobility was free, it did generally better then red mage and even with black mage for prog you'd prefer a job with a rez and mobility, over one where the group has to sometimes play around.

Obviously theirs a factor of ease of use (white mage is popular over astro for a reason) but I think job balance, also plays a massive factor in this.

Which I hope we can at least agree that a jobs play rate shouldn't be a reason why we shouldn't balance something... because like I said warrior might be fun for the person playing it but it sure isn't fun for any healer.

Warrior in raids is largely fine... I think it still has a bit too much healing i personally don't like how shake it off has a regen, It's short invul will make it a great pick, but it's currently fine utility wise and damage wise, I think for raids tank balance/gameplay is pretty on point outside of Dark Knight, but I think that job needs a rework anyway

[ApolloGenX]

Probably better off with improvements to others..war is actually fun

[Tunda]

Probably better off with improvements to others..war is actually fun

Yes it is fun to broke the game
I agree

[Ramiee]

Dungeons are supposed to be 4 players, 3 different roles and we're talking about the holy trinity. I'm not hyper fixated on other role, I'm simply considering all of them.
It would be hypocritical to claim the trinity is dead but only caring about healers, correct?

I've shared with you why capping Bloodwhetting to a single target would barely make any differences.
Bloodbath is a different can of worms, it's a DPS skill and DPS aren't meant to be tanky or heal a lot

I'm talking about tank balance, I don't really care about talking about the trinity because that needs way more to be fixed then WAR self healing to be capped, the entire game needs to be overhauled.

I've shared why I think capping it would stop the tank from being immortal is dungeon/fate pulls. Which is all I care about, it's unfair for other tanks to melt so much faster than WAR in AoE scenarios without a healer. WAR shouldn't be better than other Tanks by such a large margin unless it was way weaker in other aspects such as damage.

This is a strawman.
I've said even if you changed Bloodwhetting, even as far as removing it, WAR other cooldown would still be enough to maintain itself in dungeon.
I then asked you if we should nerf them as well, which would impact the WAR in other content. Not that its healing weaponskill is what makes it viable.

Changing BW to bloodbath equivalent would mean a longer duration and you'd still use it on every packs.

It's not a strawman I don't get what you mean, I still don't know what you mean. I was talking about dungeons you brought up raids, I've said the WAR is balanced raids and now you're asking me if I want it nerfed in raids. I don't get this train of thought. I'm only talking about AoE bloodwhetting I'm not talking about any other ability WAR has right now.
Depends on the CD, if it's a 90 second CD you'd only be able to use it one of the two packs in each run to a boss. This is too much work just cap the aoe healing to like 2-3 mobs on bloodwhetting or make the life steal percent go down in AoE.

[CKNovel]

I'm talking about tank balance, I don't really care about talking about the trinity because that needs way more to be fixed then WAR self healing to be capped, the entire game needs to be overhauled.

It's not a strawman I don't get what you mean, I still don't know what you mean. I was talking about dungeons you brought up raids, I've said the WAR is balanced raids and now you're asking me if I want it nerfed in raids. I don't get this train of thought. I'm only talking about AoE bloodwhetting I'm not talking about any other ability WAR has right now.

Trinity has been the debate from the start and the main argument of many. Now we must throw it out of the window? This thread has been created because "the Warrior is stealing the healers job!" and now when I use the trinity as an argument it's not valid?

You said, you believe Warrior will stop being immortal if you nerf bloodwhetting's lifesteal. You also brought the raids first claiming WAR was very good and it allows healers to not care about the WAR.
To which I answered that no, WAR self healing will remain strong and immortal enough even without Bloodwhetting even if you put the bloodbath effect on a 90s cooldown.
I then asked you, if that nerf isn't enough and WAR is indeed still immortal, are you going to chase the other cooldowns until WAR is "good enough" in dungeons even if it comes at the expense of WAR performance in other content?

That's not a complex.