Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Mawlzy]

Do you think this might help. You might have a more positive attitude to it since it didn't originate with me:

My personal idea for a "solution" here would be two XP bonuses for frontlines

One much-smaller-than-current XP bonus for your first participation on Frontlines for the day
One similar-or-slightly-larger-than-current XP bonus for your first *win* of the day. Stacks with first match of the day if they are the same match.

Still encourages people to queue for Frontlines for their XP bonus, but incentivizes even the "i dont like frontlines" people to try in order to hopefully have their first match also be their last of the day.

[Iglol]

Make a training video so that this neglected skill can be resurrected. You'll be raising the skill level of interested players and doing a great public service.

You tweak the tier boundaries to ensure all fill. (RW is off-topic. Focus, Namazu, c'mon man.)

My suggestion to "address the root of the issue" is to greatly reduce XP and other rewards. It proved as popular as a rattlesnake in a lucky dip. Do you have a better solution? Answering "Olivia's guide" will cause a loud buzzer to go off and a flashing red X. You correctly note the bulk of the people do not want to learn. Such people do not read guides.

Greatly reducing exp would then start gutting the population as well as remove incentive to at least keep queueing continuously. The battle pass won't make up for this and will turn FL queues seasonal and now you have another problem.

The tiering solution with changing the boundaries defeats the purpose of tiering. It works in smaller group settings due to the ease of getting enough players to fill teams with people of a similar range of skill. Put it into 3x 24m teams and you have quite a problem because to fill it, you'll have to break enough tier boundaries you might as well not have the tiering at all and we're back to square one. If you want 8v8v8, we'd then have to revamp pvp again, or just play CC if you want smaller group pvp since the big alliance is part of the whole point of FL.

[Mawlzy]

Greatly reducing exp would then start gutting the population as well as remove incentive to at least keep queueing continuously. The battle pass won't make up for this and will turn FL queues seasonal and now you have another problem.

The tiering solution with changing the boundaries defeats the purpose of tiering. It works in smaller group settings due to the ease of getting enough players to fill teams with people of a similar range of skill. Put it into 3x 24m teams and you have quite a problem because to fill it, you'll have to break enough tier boundaries you might as well not have the tiering at all and we're back to square one. If you want 8v8v8, we'd then have to revamp pvp again, or just play CC if you want smaller group pvp since the big alliance is part of the whole point of FL.

You still haven't provided a solution, just ridiculed those of others.

You identify the current problem in FL as a large proportion of people who don't want to be there. You further note they don't want to learn. How do you propose to have high-quality matches if you understandably do not want to play with the AFKers, but refuse to remove/separate them on the grounds it would make queue times too long? At least with low-tier matches, you have the hope that new players might take to the mode, instead of being completely discouraged due to the current destructive power of premades. One might conclude you're happy with the mode as is; a bold position in a 92-page thread with this title.

One reason I am so disturbed by the current meta and the way it is exploited is that it is completely unwelcoming to new players. MMO churn requires new players to get interested in the mode or it dies.

Olivia is trying to address this through training new commanders. I've explained in this thread why I don't think it will work. You have reinforced my position by astutely noting that these new commanders can't even pull off a...er...wossname... interdimensional counterpoint thingy.

One commander I talked to this week did find a solution that worked for them. They moved their PvP action from NA to JP.

I ask you again: how do you promote better play as a whole?

[aini]

Petition to implement a neutering program.

ermmm wat da sigma.. not very skibidi of you :/

[Mistress_Irika]

There's not caring about the meta and playing whatever you want.
This DRK meta is going to be replaced with another forming meta that I'm expecting for people to complain about before 7.25. Folks have complained about BRD and MCH during SB. Folks have complained about DRG and NIN during ShB. I'm not expecting for things to change after the death of the DRK meta. "Meta" is not going away. That's the one thing that this current pvp iteration and savage have in common. Play what you want, and maybe you'll learn to enjoy majority of classes over time....

Screw it. Let's throw AST in there as well. DRK/AST, all because frontlines has received very little love. That needs to change come 7.1. I'm putting that at the top of the list called Urgent Changes That Are Needed.

[Mawlzy]

There's not caring about the meta and playing whatever you want.
This DRK meta is going to be replaced with another forming meta that I'm expecting for people to complain about before 7.25. Folks have complained about BRD and MCH during SB. Folks have complained about DRG and NIN during ShB. I'm not expecting for things to change after the death of the DRK meta. "Meta" is not going away. That's the one thing that this current pvp iteration and savage have in common. Play what you want, and maybe you'll learn to enjoy majority of classes over time....

Screw it. Let's throw AST in there as well. DRK/AST, all because frontlines has received very little love. That needs to change come 7.1. I'm putting that at the top of the list called Urgent Changes That Are Needed.

Sure, by definition there will always be a meta.

I think a lot of the issues we're currently facing is that SQEX is so slow to change things up. We've established The Brains will solve the next one to maximize for their premade playstyle, but at least for a few months the change will make it less tedious. Unless, of course, SQEX decides that an attempt at balancing for both premades and solo players is impossible, and they do away with the former.

[Mawlzy]

ermmm wat da sigma.. not very skibidi of you :/

Never thought I'd have to consult "What The Teen?" to translate a forum post.

[Mistress_Irika]

Sure, by definition there will always be a meta.

I think a lot of the issues we're currently facing is that SQEX is so slow to change things up. We've established The Brains will solve the next one to maximize for their premade playstyle, but at least for a few months the change will make it less tedious. Unless, of course, SQEX decides that an attempt at balancing for both premades and solo players is impossible, and they do away with the former.

They weren't slow when it came to a bug regarding the amount of xp earned using the frontline roulettes. That got fixed within a week or less and to this day remains the only thing the devs quickly fixed. Let that sink in for a minute.

I could have easily jumped on the premade train instead of quitting frontlines. I didn't though. A lot of people are still trying to delete them, and if they get their way I'm right back to the problem that I seem to be unable to avoid: making a difference and/or having some sort of control. If folks decide the game is over there is no amount of tryharding I can do to change the team's mind. So why am I even playing if the focus is just to finish just for xp? Why am I focusing on min maxing my DPS when the entire room would rather help the leading team win just to quickly get to the next game? Why even try if majority of the team is okay with placing 2nd with only 600 points our of 1600? Why even attempt to learn all classes if there is no incentive to learn anything? I don't feel like dealing with it no longer, not with the cursed elixir existing.

As far as I was showed over the years more people are willing to change the rules around just to make it easier to run to the next objective than to do some problem solving. Forcing premades out of frontlines will only fix majority being farmed, not the lack of creativity that exist. I'm supposed to just accept all of this as an excuse not to take the game serious and to be okay with the percentage being 33% all around? No...going to ranked CC does not help since I still find myself in dead queue from time to time. Going to a different game does not help since it's the exact same problems all over again. I'm just stuck. Premades may be part of the problem, but there were never the source to begin with.

We're already at the point where classes are homogenized, a lot of people not being happy with the pve roles, classes becoming easier to use, and presumably the hard content being premade only making duty finder completely dead because of lazy players. Do I have to deal with this in pvp as well?

[danndeline]

This brand of "fun with friends" at the expense of 68 other people is absurd. All it takes is one cheese-fueled engagement for a premade to start rolling in Battle High and spiral the game out of control, which is coincidentally the exact amount of engagements necessary to figure out you're up against a premade. Oh yeah, I'm sure the Shatter cliff drop has so many counters. Maybe, you know, let's have a guy or two sit up there! Get real. These groups have an indefensible advantage. The Frontline community has proven that they're not willing to matchmake in good faith. Premades should be removed.

As an aside, you don't need Salted Earth to ruin a Frontline match. There are as many ways as stars in the sky. My personal favorite: four BH5 AST macros going off at once. Have fun dealing with that.

Yeah, I do have fun with friends in Frontlines. Problem with that?

The fact that 68 other people, some of whom are also in parties formed before queuing into a match, can't figure out how to counter premades who are trying to win, or how these 68 other people don't even care is not our problem. I play solo as much as I do with my friends and, as I have said in my previous post, which you so kindly left out because you decided to come for my "brand", can be countered. Four astrologians syncing their bursts? Everyone can do this. And they're astrologians, kill them, they're squishy. Someone who comes in here has some idea of how PvP works in FFXIV, but clearly there's still a lot of learning for many people in here.

It's also not our problem the fact most people want to play ranged, and then they complain how they die a lot and lose a lot of matches. No interest in switching jobs like a tank, no interest in being a battle high killer like monk or ninja - and, seeing as you're a white mage, I'm not surprised why you're having a such a hard time against four astros. It's not like you have a morph ability or a limit break with a ~1 minute charge that can stun them. Don't want to be farmable? Learn and play different jobs.

I say we should have the ability to vote kick people who complain about commanders, complain about too many sound effects, use flags and post them as chat, node lickers, people who want to be carried, and the "Let them fight!"-ers. They're disrupting my gameplay.

[Mawlzy]

I say we should have the ability to vote kick people who complain about commanders, complain about too many sound effects, use flags and post them as chat, node lickers, people who want to be carried, and the "Let them fight!"-ers. They're disrupting my gameplay.

You have that ability. Hell, people can and are vote-kicked for no reason whatsoever.

May I suggest you and Olivia reel in the hyperbole on the incompetent 68 other people. I'm genuinely interested in how we get more skilled/committed people involved, and the two of you asserting that only your premade is playing properly is undermining your other points.