Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Mistress_Irika]

There's not caring about the meta and playing whatever you want.
This DRK meta is going to be replaced with another forming meta that I'm expecting for people to complain about before 7.25. Folks have complained about BRD and MCH during SB. Folks have complained about DRG and NIN during ShB. I'm not expecting for things to change after the death of the DRK meta. "Meta" is not going away. That's the one thing that this current pvp iteration and savage have in common. Play what you want, and maybe you'll learn to enjoy majority of classes over time....

Screw it. Let's throw AST in there as well. DRK/AST, all because frontlines has received very little love. That needs to change come 7.1. I'm putting that at the top of the list called Urgent Changes That Are Needed.

[Mawlzy]

There's not caring about the meta and playing whatever you want.
This DRK meta is going to be replaced with another forming meta that I'm expecting for people to complain about before 7.25. Folks have complained about BRD and MCH during SB. Folks have complained about DRG and NIN during ShB. I'm not expecting for things to change after the death of the DRK meta. "Meta" is not going away. That's the one thing that this current pvp iteration and savage have in common. Play what you want, and maybe you'll learn to enjoy majority of classes over time....

Screw it. Let's throw AST in there as well. DRK/AST, all because frontlines has received very little love. That needs to change come 7.1. I'm putting that at the top of the list called Urgent Changes That Are Needed.

Sure, by definition there will always be a meta.

I think a lot of the issues we're currently facing is that SQEX is so slow to change things up. We've established The Brains will solve the next one to maximize for their premade playstyle, but at least for a few months the change will make it less tedious. Unless, of course, SQEX decides that an attempt at balancing for both premades and solo players is impossible, and they do away with the former.

[Mistress_Irika]

Sure, by definition there will always be a meta.

I think a lot of the issues we're currently facing is that SQEX is so slow to change things up. We've established The Brains will solve the next one to maximize for their premade playstyle, but at least for a few months the change will make it less tedious. Unless, of course, SQEX decides that an attempt at balancing for both premades and solo players is impossible, and they do away with the former.

They weren't slow when it came to a bug regarding the amount of xp earned using the frontline roulettes. That got fixed within a week or less and to this day remains the only thing the devs quickly fixed. Let that sink in for a minute.

I could have easily jumped on the premade train instead of quitting frontlines. I didn't though. A lot of people are still trying to delete them, and if they get their way I'm right back to the problem that I seem to be unable to avoid: making a difference and/or having some sort of control. If folks decide the game is over there is no amount of tryharding I can do to change the team's mind. So why am I even playing if the focus is just to finish just for xp? Why am I focusing on min maxing my DPS when the entire room would rather help the leading team win just to quickly get to the next game? Why even try if majority of the team is okay with placing 2nd with only 600 points our of 1600? Why even attempt to learn all classes if there is no incentive to learn anything? I don't feel like dealing with it no longer, not with the cursed elixir existing.

As far as I was showed over the years more people are willing to change the rules around just to make it easier to run to the next objective than to do some problem solving. Forcing premades out of frontlines will only fix majority being farmed, not the lack of creativity that exist. I'm supposed to just accept all of this as an excuse not to take the game serious and to be okay with the percentage being 33% all around? No...going to ranked CC does not help since I still find myself in dead queue from time to time. Going to a different game does not help since it's the exact same problems all over again. I'm just stuck. Premades may be part of the problem, but there were never the source to begin with.

We're already at the point where classes are homogenized, a lot of people not being happy with the pve roles, classes becoming easier to use, and presumably the hard content being premade only making duty finder completely dead because of lazy players. Do I have to deal with this in pvp as well?

[Mawlzy]

We seem to have gone full circle again, so I'll return to my embroidery until someone addresses how we increase the skill level in FL.

I do have one request. These little group visits that we've been getting at my FC house. If you want to stop by and act the fool in front of me, absolutely no problem. But I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't harass other FC members. Particularly the one in charge of the submarines and airships since she's the only one who knows how that works.

gl/hf

[Elfidan]

Yo, you need to report that. That's bull shit.

[Stasya]

Please for the love of god, to random SE intern that was tasked with Frontlines rework and have a gramm of English knowledge or ability to use Google Translate

Please remove this mode. Just don't waste your time trying to fix unfixable 1 vs 1 vs 1 team match, where people can abuse group q, stacking multiple broken/meta classes with no stuff to reduce aoe/dot damage etc aka wow resilence.

Not only Yoshi P will thank you for your pitch about removing Frontlines but also will probably move you to do other tasks where you can prove your talents!

[Archeron]

Please for the love of god, to random SE intern that was tasked with Frontlines rework and have a gramm of English knowledge or ability to use Google Translate

Please remove this mode. Just don't waste your time trying to fix unfixable 1 vs 1 vs 1 team match, where people can abuse group q, stacking multiple broken/meta classes with no stuff to reduce aoe/dot damage etc aka wow resilence.

Not only Yoshi P will thank you for your pitch about removing Frontlines but also will probably move you to do other tasks where you can prove your talents!

You're assuming the people responsible for the development of Frontlines have talent. We do not want their grubby hands ruining any other content in this game.

[AllenThyl]

We seem to have gone full circle again, so I'll return to my embroidery until someone addresses how we increase the skill level in FL.

Dang, what a genius idea! Maybe someone, who is like really good at Frontlines, with a high winrate or so, could write like an ordered compendium of tips and tricks how to be a better player in Frontline. You know, like an instruction manual. A tutorial video, but in text form.

Let me make sure I understand this correctly. Your goal is to either force other players to improve (or more accurately, to adopt the style of play that you have deemed "correct"), or make them so miserable that they quit the mode?

Ah, can't do that, I see. Well, but at least we, as community, can promote and support the people who are indeed striving to be good at this game mode, right?

Really remarkable how a small group of curb-stomping clowns make the mode unplayable for everyone actually interested in good PvP matches.

I do worry that, with a new generation of mini-Olivias taking the helm, the times they end up on the same team will just magnify the current problems. I guess I can hope they'll self-destruct through infighting.

Have you ever thought about how games and game modes grow? How new players become interested in a mode and want to get better? PvP games/modes are notorious for struggling with this, and it's invariably because of a self-appointed elite who are completely deaf to any criticisms that might diminish their "fun," and who can't see beyond "win at any cost."

A skill gap which you insist on widening by running your premades.

I dislike playing with you and people who adopt your playstyle.

What really amuses me is these premades actually believe they are "doing PvP" and are good at it.

Pretty sure FL will be part of the Mogtome event starting in a week. I'd like to encourage premades and other Discord-based abusers (such as the Q-synchers) to back off during this period. Maybe take the opportunity to learn to play solo. If you unleash your usual tricks, this will achieve two things:

1. Make FL miserable for 5 weeks as the transient casuals flock to the ranks of those who don't care and play accordingly.

2. Lead new players (some of whom may get hooked by this potentially-fun mode) to conclude that FL is dominated by a bunch of seal-clubbing psychopaths, so we only see the newbies again come the next Mogtome event.

Ah, but at least we can call out the uninterested and griefers, not make up excuses for their continued lethargy...

The problem is that NA is currently a low-skill pool, and it will remain that way if premades are allowed to continue feeding on the hapless and removing agency from players who might actually improve if they felt their contribution mattered.

If 97% of players dislike a playstyle, any game developer worth their salt will satisfy them and not a tiny minority who seem hell-bent on imposing their will upon others. Suggesting there is some objectively-correct playstyle through a bizarre analogy with celestial mechanics is pure sophistry.

I agree that NA FL matches would be more interesting if the average skill level was significantly higher. Currently, however, there is simply no reason for people to improve at all, except for those like you and me who enjoy being good at things.

Don't get me wrong, I am very much aware of your positions, I have followed this thread since its inception and read all posts in it. You have stated that you think that the low skill player base is indeed a problem, and that "something" should be done by SE to combat the most eggregious afkers / feeders. But you reserve your vitriol and zeal exclusively for those who actually try to make a difference, while downplaying the detrimental effect that both the griefers, and their endless enablers have. The soccer analogy makes perfectly clear of how wrong you are when it comes to analyzing the current state of Frontline.

Imagine you go to the park and get a pick-up game of soccer/football underway. Everyone is having fun kicking the ball around getting some fresh air and exercise and engaging in some friendly competition.

"Everyone is having fun kicking the ball". LoL
First and foremost, even the most casual of casual pickup matches follow the base formula of 2 teams against each other trying to score in the opposing goal. The "kicking the ball" stuff is just a means to an end, so is the running around and everything else. The same goes for Frontline, wins are decided by points at the ends, contesting objectives and killing / routing enemy players are all just a means to an end.

But what I really want to stress is that in a more accurate analogy, 2 players would just stand around in the first 20-25% of the game, looking at their smartphone, one of whom will continue doing this for the rest of the game, because their food will arrive soon. 2-3 players would only lightly jog to get to the ball, after all, "it's just a game, no need to take it seriosly". One person would just stand near the enemy goal, because they are only interested in shooting goals, and who are you to tell them how to play this game? There would also be no designated goal keeper, because playing goalkeeper is "no fun", and people who insist on it are just tyrants who try to force their will onto others. And when anyone of the leftover people would actually call any of this out, they would be immediately blasted with a barrage of abuse by the very same people who somehow showed up to a soccer game, but have no interest actually playing it, but their mom promised to buy them some candy when they at least show their face (all players are adults btw).

And then we would have you, complaining that the 3 people on the opposing team are "ruining" the match for everyone, because they actually make an effort and communicate with each other. Ah, no, sorry, because the know each other from before. And that somehow is a cardinal sin for you, not the large amount of people who actually need to start questioning their life choices.

But the grand finale would be you discussing what changes could be made to the soccer rules so that the game appeals to the 97% who are uninterested in it in the first place.

[Mawlzy]

And then we would have you, complaining that the 3 people on the opposing team are "ruining" the match for everyone, because they actually make an effort and communicate with each other. Ah, no, sorry, because the know each other from before. And that somehow is a cardinal sin for you, not the large amount of people who actually need to start questioning their life choices.

But the grand finale would be you discussing what changes could be made to the soccer rules so that the game appeals to the 97% who are uninterested in it in the first place.

If you enjoy trying to score cheap points with statements that would receive derisive laughter if presented by a JHS debate team, please keep up the good work.

I have ceased engaging with this thread, largely because of the preponderance of rude individuals claiming to know what I would do in bizarre hypotheticals, particularly when those predictions are both insulting and completely false, as above.

Have a nice life.

[Atreus]

I have ceased engaging with this thread, largely because of the preponderance of rude individuals claiming to know what I would do in bizarre hypotheticals, particularly when those predictions are both insulting and completely false, as above.

You're disingenuous and people are calling you on it. You come here several times a day to make known your disdain for premades and anyone who disagrees with your campaign to remove them. It's as tiresome to everyone as they are to you.