Warrior Rework to Balance the job

[Tunda]

Probably better off with improvements to others..war is actually fun

Yes it is fun to broke the game
I agree

[Terhix]

I've shared with you why capping Bloodwhetting to a single target would barely make any differences.

Indeed multi-target scaling on Bloodwhetting is completely unnecessary and should be removed.

[CKNovel]

Indeed multi-target scaling on Bloodwhetting is completely unnecessary and should be removed.

Okay then, let's nerf it just to save the ego of some healers that only play MSQ.
Screw the maps enjoyer, screw the fate farmer, screw the exploration field enjoyer, screw the casual/new players that aren't familiar with tank cooldown and just want a safe choice for dungeons.

Healer ego is more important after all. Then we'll realize nothing changed and healers will bring their torches to the next job.

[Ramiee]

Dungeons are supposed to be 4 players, 3 different roles and we're talking about the holy trinity. I'm not hyper fixated on other role, I'm simply considering all of them.
It would be hypocritical to claim the trinity is dead but only caring about healers, correct?

I've shared with you why capping Bloodwhetting to a single target would barely make any differences.
Bloodbath is a different can of worms, it's a DPS skill and DPS aren't meant to be tanky or heal a lot

I'm talking about tank balance, I don't really care about talking about the trinity because that needs way more to be fixed then WAR self healing to be capped, the entire game needs to be overhauled.

I've shared why I think capping it would stop the tank from being immortal is dungeon/fate pulls. Which is all I care about, it's unfair for other tanks to melt so much faster than WAR in AoE scenarios without a healer. WAR shouldn't be better than other Tanks by such a large margin unless it was way weaker in other aspects such as damage.

This is a strawman.
I've said even if you changed Bloodwhetting, even as far as removing it, WAR other cooldown would still be enough to maintain itself in dungeon.
I then asked you if we should nerf them as well, which would impact the WAR in other content. Not that its healing weaponskill is what makes it viable.

Changing BW to bloodbath equivalent would mean a longer duration and you'd still use it on every packs.

It's not a strawman I don't get what you mean, I still don't know what you mean. I was talking about dungeons you brought up raids, I've said the WAR is balanced raids and now you're asking me if I want it nerfed in raids. I don't get this train of thought. I'm only talking about AoE bloodwhetting I'm not talking about any other ability WAR has right now.
Depends on the CD, if it's a 90 second CD you'd only be able to use it one of the two packs in each run to a boss. This is too much work just cap the aoe healing to like 2-3 mobs on bloodwhetting or make the life steal percent go down in AoE.

[CKNovel]

I'm talking about tank balance, I don't really care about talking about the trinity because that needs way more to be fixed then WAR self healing to be capped, the entire game needs to be overhauled.

It's not a strawman I don't get what you mean, I still don't know what you mean. I was talking about dungeons you brought up raids, I've said the WAR is balanced raids and now you're asking me if I want it nerfed in raids. I don't get this train of thought. I'm only talking about AoE bloodwhetting I'm not talking about any other ability WAR has right now.

Trinity has been the debate from the start and the main argument of many. Now we must throw it out of the window? This thread has been created because "the Warrior is stealing the healers job!" and now when I use the trinity as an argument it's not valid?

You said, you believe Warrior will stop being immortal if you nerf bloodwhetting's lifesteal. You also brought the raids first claiming WAR was very good and it allows healers to not care about the WAR.
To which I answered that no, WAR self healing will remain strong and immortal enough even without Bloodwhetting even if you put the bloodbath effect on a 90s cooldown.
I then asked you, if that nerf isn't enough and WAR is indeed still immortal, are you going to chase the other cooldowns until WAR is "good enough" in dungeons even if it comes at the expense of WAR performance in other content?

That's not a complex.

[Terhix]

Screw the maps enjoyer, screw the fate farmer, screw the exploration field enjoyer, screw the casual/new players that aren't familiar with tank cooldown and just want a safe choice for dungeons.

All tanks can do all of that content with ease, out of which WAR would still have the highest ogcd HPS even without multitarget scaling on Bloodwhetting. And yes, new players who leveled a warrior all the way to 82 should absolutely learn that pressing just one mitigation button on cooldown is not enough to do W2W pulls.

[Ramiee]

Trinity has been the debate from the start and the main argument of many. Now we must throw it out of the window? This thread has been created because "the Warrior is stealing the healers job!" and now when I use the trinity as an argument it's not valid?

I don't really care about a trinity arguement I'm arguing about tank balance. You should argue that on the healer strike thread since the people there care more about it.

You said, you believe Warrior will stop being immortal if you nerf bloodwhetting's lifesteal.

Specifically in AoE yes.

You also brought the raids first claiming WAR was very good and it allows healers to not care about the WAR.
To which I answered that no, WAR self healing will remain strong and immortal enough even without Bloodwhetting even if you put the bloodbath effect on a 90s cooldown.

Uh I no, I don't think bloodwhetting removes the healers from play in raids completely. It's self healing is good because for example healing increase percentage abilities can be used to save the strong oGCD heals for optimisation. Bloodwhetting is solid in Raids but I believe PLD has the strongest shirt CD in raid environments. Wether or not the other abilities can keep it immortal I don't really care because I'm just talking about bloodwhetting. The only other ability I will say is op is Holmgang because of it's short CD.

I then asked you, if that nerf isn't enough and WAR is indeed still immortal, are you going to chase the other cooldowns until WAR is "good enough" in dungeons even if it comes at the expense of WAR performance in other content?

That's not a complex.

Again I don't see how capping the aoe in bloodwhetting effects anything outside of aoe scenarios. If you're talking about fates and eureka, well for fates they are overtuned in AoE and for Eureka/Bozja there's a potion that gives you aoe lifesteal akin to Bloodwhetting so it's more balanced since everyone can do it.

[aiqa]

I've said even if you changed Bloodwhetting, even as far as removing it, WAR other cooldown would still be enough to maintain itself in dungeon.

This continued "it's pointless to try balance things because there are some other far lesser issues, that wont get fixed by only fixing the worst issue" is not very convincing. The only thing you're doing is showing tanks (WAR) will still be completely fine if their most overtuned abilities are balanced better. Which shows there is no reason to keep bloodwhetting as is, besides god mode fantasies.

[CKNovel]

Tank balance exist in a bigger bubble that is the general job balance. You can not care but you can't ignore this has been the core of the topic.
Because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean you can say "This signs cannot stop me because I cannot read".

Even if you remove the aoe part, it would remain immortal. Go back a few pages to see the healing numbers I've brought from ingame testing.

My point isn't to let healers in that state, it is to help healers being fun in dungeon.
I'm pointing out that nerfing Bloodwhetting is not the way.

[Terhix]

(...)

Even if you remove the aoe part, it would remain immortal. (...)

I'm pointing out that nerfing Bloodwhetting is not the way.

You misspelled "not enough".