Warrior Rework to Balance the job

[Magikazam]

Not sure why you would nerf one of the few fun classes instead of buff the boring ones.

First off, they tried that with Picto and now we got people complaining about the new savages dps checks being almost inexistants due to everyone increased potency.

Secondly. How would you exactly make dps and healer role on par with the ''op-ness'' of Warrior? You give healer a 15 sec cd mana free insta-cast benediction?

The issues here ain't even that other job aren't fun, the issues here is that Warrior just step on other class gameplay and that make those class less fun. in ARR they nerfed WHM and SMN titan egi cause you could tank some boss with them.

[Reginald_Cain]

First off, they tried that with Picto and now we got people complaining about the new savages dps checks being almost inexistants due to everyone increased potency.

Secondly. How would you exactly make dps and healer role on par with the ''op-ness'' of Warrior? You give healer a 15 sec cd mana free insta-cast benediction?

The issues here ain't even that other job aren't fun, the issues here is that Warrior just step on other class gameplay and that make those class less fun. in ARR they nerfed WHM and SMN titan egi cause you could tank some boss with them.

You healers need to stop gas lighting yourselves that you're mad at warrior healing. you're mad because your role has been made to push the same trash looking boring gcd filler attacks since shadowbringers. dawntrail tried to remedy this but they chickened out and only gave you something interesting to do on a two minute cooldown. then 90% of fights is glare filler. People that objectively want healing to be fOcUsEd On HeAlInG should go back to wow with your archaic mentality that healers should just be drones to fill health bars. Healing has been the least fun role for 3 expansions now and it sucks. the whole role needs to more engagement outside of heal checks and long cooldown nukes.

[Magikazam]

You healers need to stop gas lighting yourselves that you're mad at warrior healing. you're mad because your role has been made to push the same trash looking boring gcd filler attacks since shadowbringers. dawntrail tried to remedy this but they chickened out and only gave you something interesting to do on a two minute cooldown. then 90% of fights is glare filler. People that objectively want healing to be fOcUsEd On HeAlInG should go back to wow with your archaic mentality that healers should just be drones to fill health bars. Healing has been the least fun role for 3 expansions now and it sucks. the whole role needs to more engagement outside of heal checks and long cooldown nukes.

First off um... I'm not really a healer player so idk what you're yapping about. The only healer I kinda experienced was Scholar and that only due to the fact I just farmed dungeon with it to level summoner. I think regardless of your opinion of if healer should be healbot or not, that it kinda stupid you can go a whole dungeon and spam Broil and forget you're supposed to heal people since Warrior can do that job on a 25 sec CD whitout ressources cost.

I mainly play tank and dps and I think that in most content of the game Warrior just get stupid priveledge when it come to just...overall balancing. Paladin is a holy knight who whield white magic, yet it got more limited healing that has cast time and mana management. Warrior also second best in tank dps. Like, you can just grab warrior right now and go to Eureka and even compared to other tank, leveling trought it will be a breeze since it the only class that can solo 6+ mobs and lower level FATE in that content.

Healers waits until there's damage to heal and spam the same button while waiting, that's their gameplay. As long as SQEX gives nothing to do to fill those empty window, you'll see complains.
You can nerf Bloodwhetting, Clemency, Cover and whatever you want, healers will always remain an ungrateful role to play.

Even if healer gameplay rn is boring with the two button press damage rotation, Healing still should be a big part of their role. Even if you would give them dps rotation, I'd find it kinda stupid that their whole role would be limited to ''yea you're the dude that cast aoe heal when boss do unavoidable damage and you're here to heal people who don't get out of orange puddle''. Like, at that point remove healer and give everyone GW2 type of self sustain.

[CKNovel]

I'd find it kinda stupid that their whole role would be limited to ''yea you're the dude that cast aoe heal when boss do unavoidable damage and you're here to heal people who don't get out of orange puddle''.

Even if we nerf Warrior and the tanks, that would remain "the dude who heal people who don't get out of puddles".

Giving them a rotation would copy-paste the recipe applied to tanks who are "the DPS that tank the boss and has mitigation tools". That would work since there's no tank strike.
Healers should focus on the party while the tank should focus on individuals. That's already kind of the case, except dungeons only deal damages on individuals and throws 10 raidwide accross the whole dungeon.

Increase the damage tools, increase the damage received across the party, focus on healer mechanics that requires burst healing.
If we want to go further we could even integrate the cleanse in their toolkit, bring back the aoe cleansing and Esuna would be the last ressort if you missmanaged your tools.
We could even consider having purging abilities that removes buffs from bosses.

[Shurrikhan]

Not sure why you would nerf one of the few fun classes instead of buff the boring ones.

First, because gameplay is relevant to capacity only insofar as one's optimizations (the elements of difficulty for which you are rewarded) are balanced against each other, such as good use of all your skills being meaningful regardless of content type, instead of one overwhelming all others, and is balanced against content (such that you have decent reason to engage with, again, your whole kit). Generally, being truly overpowered is as at least as damaging to gameplay as being relatively underpowered, even if not nearly as bad for your chances of getting a group.

Second, because there is no such thing as a "buff" to all others that isn't simply a content nerf or, yet again, a relative nerf to the job in question. When asking for the outlier not to be addressed, one is effectively asking for the game as a whole to be made harder (if the outlier was underpowered) or easier (if, as per Warrior in multi target situations, the outlier was overpowered). If one did not wish to adjust content difficulty as a whole, they'd simply deal with the one job at issue, since if you balanced the content after the "buff" to all, etc., you'd end up with the same result, just with far more work and likely errors.

Healing is just broken. It's because mechanics make individuals responsible for not taking damage instead of healers responsible for healing it.

No, that issue you're describing is with the design of certain fights, not healing itself. Were that not the case, it'd be no less broken/redundant on Warriors, Paladins, etc.

If people are responsible then ditch healing and give self healing....easier to balance damage in fights.

It'd be "easier to balance" fights if we were to remove tanks, too, to be fair. As with (removing) healers, though, that doesn't make it a good idea.

[Mercury_Grey]

Honestly, imma say it some people should of seen the interview with yoshi-p, I believe its from 7.2 and further they are gonna try to make class identities more diverse. For example: PLD be more of the defensive, GNB more dps, DRK more magical defense.

[Reginald_Cain]

I encourage everybody who sees warrior's healing as a threat to game balance to do a comprehensive examination of the game's history. Stuff like homoginization, gutting of jobs like stormblood scholar and machinist being in design limbo for half a decade. Ranged tax is way to heavy on machinist and its because the devs don't play it (look at the aoe disconnect on machinist vs everyone else and tell me they play it) and they forgot machinist isn't a support like the other two. It's infuriating that this stuff exists and people are like warrior healing in casual content is toxic is peak delusion. The fact that when you aren't healing the game feels bad is the problem. Its how the devs gave us NOTHING to do outside of when we're healing to make healing "easier" IT'S STILL HARD it just feels WORSE now! God the changes to healer are the only thing i HATE and despise about shadowbringers. (5.0 astro couldn't even keep a its own mp topped off!). PS I know summoner and bard are 1 button jobs but gemshine atleast changes visual and effects and heavy/burst shot triggers procs of refulgent!

[Shurrikhan]

I encourage everybody who sees warrior's healing as a threat to game balance to [follow these irrelevant red herrings].

Fixed that for you.

[CKNovel]

They're not wrong though.

Healers waits until there's damage to heal and spam the same button while waiting, that's their gameplay. As long as SQEX gives nothing to do to fill those empty window, you'll see complains.
You can nerf Bloodwhetting, Clemency, Cover and whatever you want, healers will always remain an ungrateful role to play.

We'll just end up with dungeons similar to Heroes Gauntlet to balance the nerf and tools that used to be fun won't be anymore, just to stroke the ego of MSQ healers.

Take the 24 man raid from EW, they're as boring as dungeon to heal. Is there multi target? No. Is Warrior broken in there? No.

[Shurrikhan]

They're not wrong though.

"How dare you ask that problem A be dealt with when other problems exist?!" is a very wrong way to look at almost anything, let alone when those problems are resolvable separately/independently of balancing concerns across tanks or among the relative contributions of Warrior's kit.

We'll just end up with dungeons similar to Heroes Gauntlet to balance the nerf and tools that used to be fun won't be anymore, just to stroke the ego of MSQ healers.

Tuning affects only how redundant you make others' (and other parts of your own) kit.

Which do you actually like then? The gameplay of the tools (unchanged, except in that other Warrior mitigation optimizations might also now be of value), or solely the fact that you uniquely don't need the other roles / render another role redundant in their interactions with you, or a different game approach whereby the "trinity" is softened to a pudding?

If the change would be bad, then surely it has to be one of the things actually affected by the change, no? And I'd understand, even, if it's the last. But if one isn't equally okay with tanks being rendered as useless as healers or with Warrior offering only as much as other tanks... I don't get the feeling the game's broader health is their driving concern.