Tanks holding fights hostage in Roulettes

[hydralus]

More fights need enrage mechanics, honestly. If they reliably had dps checks this wouldn't happen.

It's surprising that so many people get upset at the mere mention of enrage mechanics in normal fights when there already are some. They're so forgiving I haven't even seen some of them, but they exist. People act like half the playerbase would leave.

[gllt]

People think of the worst possible version of the thing they're reading about.

"I want healing to be more interesting" == "I want every job to have the old MNK rotation"
"Tanks shouldn't hold people hostage for 15+ minutes while they solo a boss if the people who died just want to try and learn it" == "if you try to kill a boss at 5% to get the clear as a solo tank you're subhuman sludge who deserves to eat dirt and I hate you you're not supposed to have feelings or opinions you are my AGGRO SLAVE"
"Maybe more normal content should have enrages" == "I want ultimate level DPS checks in ARR leveling dungeons I am an elitist who hates all these scrub idiot baby players who can't git gud"

Something like that, at least that's what it always feels like

[Avatre]

People think of the worst possible version of the thing they're reading about.

"I want healing to be more interesting" == "I want every job to have the old MNK rotation"
"Tanks shouldn't hold people hostage for 15+ minutes while they solo a boss if the people who died just want to try and learn it" == "if you try to kill a boss at 5% to get the clear as a solo tank you're subhuman sludge who deserves to eat dirt and I hate you you're not supposed to have feelings or opinions you are my AGGRO SLAVE"
"Maybe more normal content should have enrages" == "I want ultimate level DPS checks in ARR leveling dungeons I am an elitist who hates all these scrub idiot baby players who can't git gud"

Something like that, at least that's what it always feels like

But there is a major difference of "healer died, nobody can get them back up, boss is at 10-15%, let's just burn it down" and "boss is at 60%, healer died nobody can get them up, lets just keep fighting".

[gllt]

But there is a major difference of "healer died, nobody can get them back up, boss is at 10-15%, let's just burn it down" and "boss is at 60%, healer died nobody can get them up, lets just keep fighting".

You don't have to prove that difference to me, I'm not sure what your point is. I agree? If it's 10-15 burn it down unless the rest of the party really objects for some reason, otherwise if it's something absurd like 60.. don't, unless the party asks you to, then go for it.

[AddictedToWitches]

I think it's fine to try and solo when the boss is around 10%ish but yeah often times when it's a full wipe I end up typing in party chat "Please wipe stop wasting time"
Usually most people will just go ahead and wipe when you point out your annoyance but I have had a few people just ignore it

[Striker44]

You don't have to prove that difference to me, I'm not sure what your point is. I agree? If it's 10-15 burn it down unless the rest of the party really objects for some reason, otherwise if it's something absurd like 60.. don't, unless the party asks you to, then go for it.

I think the issue is more "what happens in the grey areas"? What if it's at 18-20%? That's above 15%, but far away from 60%. Where does the proverbial line get drawn?

"Maybe more normal content should have enrages" == "I want ultimate level DPS checks in ARR leveling dungeons I am an elitist who hates all these scrub idiot baby players who can't git gud"

Something like that, at least that's what it always feels like

Yeah, I get that sense, too. I'd have to say, though, when people use the phrase "hard enrage," by its nature it feels like it implies a significant skill check. Some people in this thread are calling for something like a 15-minute enrage on a 5-minute fight...doesn't feel like a "hard enrage" when it's never going to happen, so why even bother becomes the thought. If you're going to add it, it implies it would be meaningful and thus could definitely affect average players.

Personally, I'd say if the goal is preventing a tank from just solo'ing a boss from an absurd amount of health, aside from the obvious adjusting of tank mitigation and self-sustain, another option could be to have bosses automatically give themselves a significant buff that stacks if only one player in the party is left alive (or perhaps two people in an 8-man setting). Make it so a tank could still reasonably finish a boss off if it's HP is already low, but soon enough overwhelm and one-shot the tank if it's not already close to death. (Basically, a soft enrage when most of the raid is dead.)

[wildvenonat]

It's surprising that so many people get upset at the mere mention of enrage mechanics in normal fights when there already are some. They're so forgiving I haven't even seen some of them, but they exist. People act like half the playerbase would leave.

Yeah, I can offhand think of three regular dungeons with enrage checks, and you know what circumstances it enrages? "Tank is the only one alive" or "dps are not pressing buttons at all." A lot of alliance raids have real enrage checks, too, and again it only really checks that people are awake. You don't die to enrage in casual content unless there's very big problems.

The tank is the only person alive and wants to solo the boss far beyond where it's faster to wipe is a big problem that's fixable by having a dps check they won't succeed in. Those are already all over the place.

[Bobby66]

Did you takelong to think about this one?
I hope not.

Hey no need to get bent out of shape, I was not the person that brought up teamwork when clearing two people did use teamwork to finish the fight.

But there is a major difference of "healer died, nobody can get them back up, boss is at 10-15%, let's just burn it down" and "boss is at 60%, healer died nobody can get them up, lets just keep fighting".

Is that inherently wrong though? If SE did not want that to happen they would have put an enrage mechanic that the tanks cannot survive or something. Not exactly sure why people are blaming the tanks for simply finishing out the fight. Maybe they don't want to just stand around and die. It is silly to fault people with that or think they are doing it out of malice or have some ill intent behind it.

[SushiOishiiii]

This is a tough one... it's more of a courtesy to make the right judgement call here. Tanks who just do it from a high percentage left are kinda just being rude. At the same time, if the group is dieing alot and not learning.. maybe the tank just wants to finish it. Square would have to introduce a mechanic to handle this or a timer. If tank is alive only for like 3 mins then reset the fight.

But I'm sure that would piss off other people

[Arrius]

Go with the Delubrum solution - You get one pass on failing the mechanic, the second time gives you a insta kill debuff that drops you dead after 5 seconds.

We shall see who is the last one that stands.