You pull you tank question.

[AlaineIV]

Every YPYT person has been killed by a DPS or healer before thinking they knew best when they were ignorant and had something they didn't realize. And it makes us hate every person that does that going forward because you are a pending nuisance. A tank's job is not to run up and gain aggro on every add and just spam aoe mindlessly while hitting random cooldown buttons. It is to LIVE first and foremost.

DPS's playing russian roulette, running off in Narnia and try to make it back before dying is not smooth. The only thing I hate more as a healer than a tank sprinting off and getting out of healing range and forcing me to burst them up from an inch of health because they wanted to LoS or sprint while mine was on cooldown, is a DPS doing it because I have to burn more cooldowns or stronger cooldowns, swiftcast, etc. to save their stupidity and squishiness that should've been meant for the tank. Most DPS's can't pull smoothly consistently without being a minor irritation in the process.

Ive done dungeons without tanks doing wall to wall pulls. Guess it is the mind set. YPYT mind set is literally such a weak excuse with all the tools everyone has. The game even gives TOOL TIPS on abilities. They gave tanks extra mitigation. The game shouldn't have to learn for you as a player. Reprisal being an aoe, arm's length slowing mobs when it hits. It's all in the tool tip description. /

As a dps, hitting arms length is a form of miitgation as it slows the add, bring them to the tank, they have blood bath and second wind, some melee's even have their own class specific dcd. Casters have sleep (yes it actually works on dungeon mobs). Physical Range have arms length. WHM has a Stun, dash, SCH has Expedience with 10% mit and SPEEEEEED. There isn't a valid excuse here. The excuse can't be "I need the game to learn for me."

Most dps that pull ahead usually do bring the mobs to tanks. I do it as a dps, if I die i just respawn and run back and continue to kill. THere is a limit to YPYT pride cause even they want to finish the dungeon.

[AlaineIV]

If you ask me, tanks NOT sprinting, or using enough mits is a WAY bigger problem, or a Healer not knowing how to read a DRK's buff bar for LD.

[Thurmnmurmn]

Snip

So a few things wrong in how you interpret the TOS.

1)
"・Expressions that compel a playing style"
-its not saying you can't do big pulls. It's saying you can't demand someone they do big pulls if they don't want to. Someone needs to initiate the fact they don't want big pulls before it becomes a TOS violation.

2) ・Obstructing Gameplay Using Combat
-this one is more aimed towards tanks dragging tank buster's or aoes to kill people. Yes you can argue DPS fall in this as well but the thing is wall to wall pulls have been the norm for years and only really fall into this again, after someone needs to be vocal about them not wanting it.

3) ◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
-you're in a dungeon here. The intent is to go faster, not to kill your fellow tank. Again, if a conversation is had and then they continue, then you can report.

As for
・Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
-if a tank says YPYT, that's an outright refusal of playing correctly.
Literally the first example it gives is "I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group."
How is that any different from refusing to tank because you don't like that someone pulled for you?


The big thing in this is that yes, both sides can be reported. However. For the DPS to be reportable, a discussion needs to take place first. For the tank to be reported, they just have to say YPYT.

[Abriael]

Nowhere in the TOS it says that a tank needs to play at YOUR pace.

As a tank since day 1 of 1.0, who tramples dungeons from start to finish and that DPS normally have to try and keep up with, the readings of the TOS I'm seeing here are absolutely ludicrous and hilarious. There are many people who have very tangible and legitimate issues (age, a variety of disabilities, severe anxiety, and so forth) with being hurried through a dungeon because a DPS doesn't want to take 2 minutes longer to finish it and move to the next big thing in their busy schedule.

By pulling when the tank isn't ready you are disrupting the normal flow of gameplay, not them. Many of those who say "you pull you tank" do so out of exasperation caused by rude people like you.

Perhaps, before blabbering about who should be reported, you should start thinking about your own crappy behavior. You never know who is on the other side of the screen and what issues they may have causing them to go at a pace you personally consider slow. Adapting to the slowest person's pace for these meager 25 minutes it takes is a matter of basic courtesy, but many people nowadays have absolutely no idea of what that means.

I swear, some of you people must think this is your day job.

[Somnolence]

How this thread got to 29 pages?

Is this cringe problem so common? In all my time playing since mid of SB I haven't run into this not even once.

[LilyPendragon]

If you do not have a tank you physically cannot complete the dungeon.
If you do not have a healer and your tank is anything other than a Warrior, you cannot do the dungeon.

Neither of these are true. You can complete a dungeon with 1 healer and 3 DPS, but it will be slower.
You can complete a dungeon with a Warrior, Gunbreaker or Paladin and 3 DPS and will clear faster. Honestly you can probably do it with Dark Knight if the DPS are good.

Ah, thanks for proving my point. The fact you consider mitigation rotating only involving a set of amount of buttons proves my point. You're just a trust NPC. You don't play with the order of your mitigation, the strength of the adds damage and survival time, or the timing between them as a consideration in gameplay. You just braindead 1-2-3 and deal with the consequences afterward.

Because it's literally irrelevant for dungeon content. There's barely anything to consider or optimise.

It's not bannable. I still don't know who even told people this lie. When you look at the link: https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

1)
"・Expressions that compel a playing style"
"It is prohibited to make statements such as:
"There's no way we can clear this with [suggestion]."
"Big pulls are normal here, so do it!""

They specifically say that trying to get a player to mass pull is against ToS.

2) ・Obstructing Gameplay Using Combat
Using and manipulating enmity-related actions in an effort to incapacitate other players **or interfere with gameplay.**
If you adding extra damage in stress to a player that doesn't want it, you are interfering with their gameplay.

3) ◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
"MPK" is an act of sending a monster towards another person so that they are knocked out or **obstructing another person's gameplay.**

You have 3 violations possible based on pulling adds and bringing them to a tank that doesn't want them. Meanwhile the only defense is:
・Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior

Which apparently, noone read the drop down menu to read:
"From the perspective of a skilled player in such a situation, a less skilled player may appear to be "adversarial/uncooperative/apathetic," but even if this is the case, it is not a violation as long as the player is playing appropriately."

Aka, if a tank wants to solo target aggro through a dungeon, that is his right. You don't get to dictate how he pulls unless it forces you to die for reasons you didn't create. A tank doesn't have to cooperate with anyone else in the group. SQUARE ENIX EXPLICITY SAYS THEY DO NOT.
YPYT is asserting the rights the developers actually gave you.

You should stretch before reaching this much, might put your back out. YPYT is absolutely all three of those. It compels a playstyle of 'let me be the main character or I'll turn stance off and kill you'. It obstructs gameplay for the entire party by killing people that wound the tanks ego, and it is unquestionably an MPK. Again, a tank's role is to hold aggro, not pull mobs. Tanks pulling is convention.

[Thurmnmurmn]

Nowhere in the TOS it says that a tank needs to play at YOUR pace.

As a tank since day 1 of 1.0, who tramples dungeons from start to finish and that DPS normally have to try and keep up with, the readings of the TOS I'm seeing here are absolutely ludicrous and hilarious. There are many people who have very tangible and legitimate issues (age, a variety of disabilities, severe anxiety, and so forth) with being hurried through a dungeon because a DPS doesn't want to take 2 minutes longer to finish it and move to the next big thing in their busy schedule.

By pulling when the tank isn't ready you are disrupting the normal flow of gameplay, not them. Many of those who say "you pull you tank" do so out of exasperation caused by rude people like you.

Perhaps, before blabbering about who should be reported, you should start thinking about your own crappy behavior. You never know who is on the other side of the screen and what issues they may have causing them to go at a pace you personally consider slow. Adapting to the slowest person's pace for these meager 25 minutes it takes is a matter of basic courtesy, but many people nowadays have absolutely no idea of what that means.

I swear, some of you people must think this is your day job.

I'm referring to the TOS because it's the one true guideline that people can't contest. Everyone will have different feelings and view points of the situation as we see in this and many other threads before.
All I did with my last post is identify who is actually at fault and when they are as per SEs rules.
I never said tanks can't speak up about it. Only that using YPYT as a response is indeed against TOS.

[Galvuu]

This thread keeps getting bumped.
I can't believe we're having this discussion in the year of our Lord 2024.
There's no way anyone tries to defend ytyp nonsense in DT, where all that's required to keep aggro is use the first hit of your aoe combo once every 5s, and where the most common tank can press Bloodwhetting and top themselves off without any healer assistance.
What's next? A thread going on about how healers don't need to use their dps spells, or how dps players shouldn't be expected to aoe dungeon packs?
I can't even...

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

Neither of these are true. You can complete a dungeon with 1 healer and 3 DPS, but it will be slower.
You can complete a dungeon with a Warrior, Gunbreaker or Paladin and 3 DPS and will clear faster. Honestly you can probably do it with Dark Knight if the DPS are good.

You can wall pull healerless with a DRK, it's been done and filmed, you just need good DPS so mits don't run out.

[Abriael]

I'm referring to the TOS because it's the one true guideline that people can't contest. Everyone will have different feelings and view points of the situation as we see in this and many other threads before.
All I did with my last post is identify who is actually at fault and when they are as per SEs rules.
I never said tanks can't speak up about it. Only that using YPYT as a response is indeed against TOS.

The TOS is there to prevent and discourage harassment, not to use as a tool to bludgeon your playstyle on others. Also, saying "It's the one true guideline that people can't contest" is laughable. Like all legalese, it's open to plenty of interpretation, as the widely ranging (and ludicrous) readings in this thread and others amply demonstrate.