You pull you tank question.

[bp_isa_ff]

This discourse is open and shut: It's against ToS, rightfully, no exceptions listed. Therefore if you subscribe to the mindset you're *objectively* in the wrong no matter the context.

To any YPYT who earnestly believes it is their right to act in such a way: Take that up with SE, not your fellow player. We're not the ones who made your "play style" bannable.

[Merrigan]

I don't know whether it's me who has a radically different experience from the others or not, but just to hammer home the point: the dps I saw pull when I was a tank were systematically bad dps. No group buff, a pretty lousy dps, no check on the cd def used by the tank... And a danger to the group, because like a lot of tanks when I slow down there's a reason. I've been playing for a while now, and after the time when I was very new and going fast was an adaptation problem, I've never once seen a dps pull in a useful way.

[VoidsentStatus]

This discourse is open and shut: It's against ToS, rightfully, no exceptions listed. Therefore if you subscribe to the mindset you're *objectively* in the wrong no matter the context.

To any YPYT who earnestly believes it is their right to act in such a way: Take that up with SE, not your fellow player. We're not the ones who made your "play style" bannable.

It's not bannable. I still don't know who even told people this lie. When you look at the link: https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

1)
"・Expressions that compel a playing style"
"It is prohibited to make statements such as:
"There's no way we can clear this with [suggestion]."
"Big pulls are normal here, so do it!""

They specifically say that trying to get a player to mass pull is against ToS.

2) ・Obstructing Gameplay Using Combat
Using and manipulating enmity-related actions in an effort to incapacitate other players **or interfere with gameplay.**
If you adding extra damage in stress to a player that doesn't want it, you are interfering with their gameplay.

3) ◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
"MPK" is an act of sending a monster towards another person so that they are knocked out or **obstructing another person's gameplay.**

You have 3 violations possible based on pulling adds and bringing them to a tank that doesn't want them. Meanwhile the only defense is:
・Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior

Which apparently, noone read the drop down menu to read:
"From the perspective of a skilled player in such a situation, a less skilled player may appear to be "adversarial/uncooperative/apathetic," but even if this is the case, it is not a violation as long as the player is playing appropriately."

Aka, if a tank wants to solo target aggro through a dungeon, that is his right. You don't get to dictate how he pulls unless it forces you to die for reasons you didn't create. A tank doesn't have to cooperate with anyone else in the group. SQUARE ENIX EXPLICITY SAYS THEY DO NOT.
YPYT is asserting the rights the developers actually gave you.

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

It's not bannable. I still don't know who even told people this lie. When you look at the link: https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216
3) ◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
"MPK" is an act of sending a monster towards another person so that they are knocked out or **obstructing another person's gameplay.**

This literally describes YPYT, refusing to draw aggro so the monster kills another player,

the rest of it is about not being rude in case they just genuinely don't know they can pull larger or shaming players because they won't do giga-pulls like the first Snowcloak pull, Stone Vigil into the boss arena pulls, or Mt Gulg. YPYT isn't being a low skill player, it's a tantrum.

[VoidsentStatus]

This literally describes YPYT, refusing to draw aggro so the monster kills another player,

the rest of it is about not being rude in case they just genuinely don't know they can pull larger or shaming players because they won't do giga-pulls like the first Snowcloak pull, Stone Vigil into the boss arena pulls, or Mt Gulg. YPYT isn't being a low skill player, it's a tantrum.

"sending" is not the same as "refusing to grab". To a GM, you committed suicide. You grabbed the add to begin with. A tank's job is not to save you from every mistake you could make. You created the problem. And if you go to other games, that concept isn't even a thing. If you tried to pull ahead of a tank on my old game, you would've gotten killed before you even reached the tank because the adds have ranged attacks and lunges, and in higher content will flat out 2shot you. You're not allowed to even try that concept without using the equivalent of a limit break to try to survive while getting back to the group.

[AlaineIV]

With how aggro/emity works in this game.. If you're salty a dps pulled ahead of you, you should stop tanking. Literally 1 or 2 aoe gcd's keeps aggro now. It takes 3 boss auto's at 2.5gcd to kill a dps maybe 4 to 5 if dps uses a defensive. So as a tank literally 1 to 2 single target abilities will take aggro on a boss. Tanking has become considerably easier throughout the years. Letting a dps pull ahead and bring the add's to you speeds up the dungeon. The faster you get the dungeon done the faster you are at grinding. If you don't like dps pulling ahead of you, there are trust where NPC's hold your hand for you.

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

You grabbed the add to begin with. A tank's job is not to save you from every mistake you could make.

"a tank serves as the party's shield." - Lodestone job guide.

If a tank's job isn't to grab aggro genuinely what is their job. We're not playing other games either, we're playing FFXIV Online: A Realm Reborn in the year 2024. They just got an enmity increase on their AoE and have had an enmity increase on their ranged attack for a while so they can grab aggro off the DPS even though that apparently isn't their job, weird.

[BokoToloko]

I'm going to start with the real game changer,

3) *skips first half of assumptions* "all roles get the minimum tools needed to perform their job". Exactly. The Minimum. Minimum =/ Core Kit.
PLD = missing Clemency which was a massive game-changer in

This alone says everything. The fact you consider Clemency as core PLD spell and a game changer just highlighted how little you actually know how to play tanks. Moving on...

1)You still have to run dungeons and trials with others, barring trusts, sweetheart. That one thing is hardly going to change.
2) Unless the devs are enforcing mind controlling devices they do NOT "have the community on a leash". Because, at every turn and every moment, everyone can call them idiots and unsub. And having the usual attention seeker in the forum whining doesn't change the fact that what the community and the dev think about the game are two entirely different things. And if you knew a bit of FFXIV, healer complainsts have existed ever since HW
3)Already addressed the important part. But let me correct you: the complaints are aimed at the fact that playing at level 50 is boring as shit because you're not playing the full class, hence why it feels incomplete. You are still fine to clear whatever content you get at level 50, even Savage T9. And I strongly suggest you give the scenario another spin.
4) *cough cough* Mt. Gulg gigapulls. *cough, cough* Someone who considers Clemency a game changer isn't in any position to lecture others on tank discussions. Not to mention you're not on the majority defending YPYT, so.... yeah.

I like how you conveniently left out what you'd do if the sprout didn't take the advice.

"Can you clear SoS with an AFK person? You can't. That means tanking Warrior of Light isn't so easy right? Checkmate" This is the level of your argument. If your whole argument requires someone to be incompetent, you don't have an argument at all. No one. NO ONE is expected to perform beyond what their alloted responsibilities. If I do wall to wall in Stone Vigil, cycle the cooldowns accordingly and die because the healer is spaming Cure 1, it's not my problem anymore. It's the healers'. And I do NOT have to drag or slow down for someone who REFUSES to step up their game and do an actual decent job. It doesn't work that way. And, so far, 0 sessions with a GM over it, because I do not insult or threaten. I tell them what they should improve, and if they refuse to learn the easy way, they'll have to learn the hard way. Hence the dismiss vote if they refuse to play right. No more coddling deadweight.

But it's understandable you think expecting people to strive for a modicum of competence is toxic. You would get a hard time doing dungeon roulettes as a Clemency Paladin (yes, it's really bad).

[VoidsentStatus]

With how aggro/emity works in this game.. If you're salty a dps pulled ahead of you, you should stop tanking.

This isn't the point of YPYT. The ease of enmity is irrelevant. It's about the dps getting the party killed half the time because they added stress that the tank and healer couldn't handle. Every YPYT person has been killed by a DPS or healer before thinking they knew best when they were ignorant and had something they didn't realize. And it makes us hate every person that does that going forward because you are a pending nuisance. A tank's job is not to run up and gain aggro on every add and just spam aoe mindlessly while hitting random cooldown buttons. It is to LIVE first and foremost.

We don't want a DPS trying to say "we know best, we know what you can handle", when that has gotten groups wiped in the past. Clearly, as a whole, that role doesn't actually know what people can handle. They know what people are /supposed/ to be able to handle, but not what they actually are. That's why when a wipe happens, they pikachu face and have to ask what happened or apologize. Healers are the only people that should be speaking with a tank about pull decisions and even then, it's a consideration because depending on the content level, the tank is going to have more information than the healer even about whether a pull is possible. I've had times as a healer myself, and times I witnessed other healers give assurance to a tank, "you can full pull, I got you, don't worry" despite the tank being new. And sometimes you carry them through. Other times, I look up and the tank hasn't been taught how to mitigate properly, they don't use invul's, no1 told the tank about Arm's Length & Reprisal so it wasn't even on their hotbar,they're getting hit by aoe cone's due to lagging and end taking more damage than I expected, I see dps's getting hit by aoe's trying to greed for damage and not using bloodbath to heal back part of that suicide positioning and forcing me to use AoE heals I didn't have planned, etc. to where either I have to sweat to save them, or they end up dying still because there were things I did not know. A tank's job is not to get through content asap, a tank's job (along with a healer's) is to get through content as smoothly as possible. And wall pulling blindly in every situation is not smooth consistently.

DPS's playing russian roulette, running off in Narnia and try to make it back before dying is not smooth. The only thing I hate more as a healer than a tank sprinting off and getting out of healing range and forcing me to burst them up from an inch of health because they wanted to LoS or sprint while mine was on cooldown, is a DPS doing it because I have to burn more cooldowns or stronger cooldowns, swiftcast, etc. to save their stupidity and squishiness that should've been meant for the tank. Most DPS's can't pull smoothly consistently without being a minor irritation in the process.

[VoidsentStatus]

"a tank serves as the party's shield." - Lodestone job guide.

If a tank's job isn't to grab aggro genuinely what is their job. We're not playing other games either, we're playing FFXIV Online: A Realm Reborn in the year 2024. They just got an enmity increase on their AoE and have had an enmity increase on their ranged attack for a while so they can grab aggro off the DPS even though that apparently isn't their job, weird.

And guess what shields do? They lead the battlefield. If you're a soldier, you don't run past the shield to draw aggro against the enemy frontline and get shot/stabbed and then try to duck back behind the shield after you get fucked up and scream "protect me". "Well you're not pushing enemy lines fast enough for me". Your general would smack you assuming you weren't dishonorably discharged for suiciding and putting your allies at risk. You don't see a mention of healers having a responsibility of drawing aggro. You don't see DPS's having a responsibility of drawing aggro. I also don't see a mention saying that tanks and healers have to follow DPS's into Narnia to save them from dying, nor do I see footage of anyone passing the tank.