#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Bobby66]

If anything the tanks inherent immortality is just increasing the stress on the healer for no benefit because the healer is the DPS only defence against the tank wasting everyone’s time but the healer has no engagement to go with this

And somehow the braindead DPS blame the healer for not surviving to keep them alive when they all end up stuck watching the tank when the question should be “why is the tank allowed to do this”

For what it is worth I think many do feel tanks doing their 90 to 0 boss kills is extremely BM.

[Aravell]

I am sure SE has the data that supports the changes they make. I doubt they are making changes based off their on whims, I doubt we would have a game that is growing in population and popularity if they were doing that.

Let be fair the healers were pressured to keep it off were because people could afraid they were going to wipe the group, just like how people pushed some tanks to not use dps stance and stay in tank stance for aggro reasons.

In the end SE has the data and they will use that data to support their choices, their data must have supported the complaints or I doubt they would have changed it.

You seem to be arguing from the position that SE has the data and so they cannot make the wrong decision.

We have seen that they have made a lot of decisions that were received very badly before, so just because they have the data still doesn't automatically mean they make the correct (or even the best) decisions.

The only difference here is that you have faith in SE, we don't.

[Supersnow845]

I don't think a tank should be able to survive a bossfight without the support of a healer so I do think that their self sustain should have a look over by the devs.
I've seen tanks try to solo a boss if the rest of the group dies early, sure.
But if the boss is at high HP more often than not do the tank suicide and we restart the encounter. No screaming and most of the times not even a word uttered.
I can't however recall to ever have experienced a tank trying to kill the other party members. That sounds like an abnormally to me.

So I can't tell from personal experience that I've ever felt it causing a friction in a party.
To me, what people talk about tanks trying to solo Bosses and trying to kill team mates doesn't feel very common.
I can't say that it isn't or not ofc. But I've never noticed anything ingame that would point towards it being one.

Tanks attempting to actively murder the healer to solo is definitely an anomaly (though one that wouldn’t exist if the tanks couldn’t solo the boss) but from all the listening posts I have access to the tank silently deciding to solo the boss has become a massive annoyance in DT that people aren’t happy with and it’s because the tank players aren’t actually better than anyone else, they just have an inbuilt 80% damage down that means they just tank mechanics that others die to then say it’s a skill issue

[Evergrey]

Tanks attempting to actively murder the healer to solo is definitely an anomaly (though one that wouldn’t exist if the tanks couldn’t solo the boss) but from all the listening posts I have access to the tank silently deciding to solo the boss has become a massive annoyance in DT that people aren’t happy with and it’s because the tank players aren’t actually better than anyone else, they just have an inbuilt 80% damage down that means they just tank mechanics that others die to then say it’s a skill issue

That's really bothersome to hear if it is increasing in cases happening.
I'd say that one could at least start with reporting them for it, using following..

・Obstructing Gameplay Using Combat
Refers to an act of obstructive behavior such as using specific skills in an unintended manner or taking advantage of battle mechanics to interfere with the gameplay of other players.

Seeing how the Tank is actively, as you describe it, killing off group members using the boss's mechanics I'd say it could very well be classified under "taking advantage of battle mechanics to interfere with the gameplay of other players".
And by doing so the tank is also actively enforcing ・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content. Content being the bossfight in question.
Hopefully this can at least give some repercussion to griefing Tanks out there.

[Mapleine]

After an evening of dungeons, just wanting some quick queues: I really don't care if healers stay simple, they can lose half of these samey buttons and I wouldn't care I just want to press things other than Dosis/Glare/etc.

This is killing my hand, the sheer reptition. I've played games all my life and I've never seen anything like this, granted it's been going on forever but the exasperation has set in where it's like "how they can they be OK with this? Is there not one person who plays healer on the team?"

I really want to heal, I hate this, I really hate this. I dont know what they can do but I'd accept any solution at this point. Make the DPS spell auto cast and let me build parts of good heals in downtime like Picto motifs or something.

Devs, please do something, anything to make this spam stop, it's been half a damn decade.

[GartredZW]

I am sure SE has the data that supports the changes they make. I doubt they are making changes based off their on whims, I doubt we would have a game that is growing in population and popularity if they were doing that.

Let be fair the healers were pressured to keep it off were because people could afraid they were going to wipe the group, just like how people pushed some tanks to not use dps stance and stay in tank stance for aggro reasons.

In the end SE has the data and they will use that data to support their choices, their data must have supported the complaints or I doubt they would have changed it.

They had data back then, and changed the design philosophy based on player feedback, and how the game played after changes. Just because they have raw numbers doesn't mean they completely and perfectly understand what those numbers mean, or even how to perfectly design in a way to fix these issues. Mistakes are made, and lessons are learned.
Doesn't mean I, or anyone in this thread knows the exact solution to solve this problem, but we don't need to be experts to know that there's an issue in the first place.

Edit: Congrats everyone on 700 pages. How far we've come with so many repeated arguments.

[Kes13a]

Thank you, but I am well aware.
Henche why I added the part "passive as it is". Since I know it's not meant to be disruptive.
Which is the defining difference between then and now which might've been what tipped the scale back then for the change to even happen.
Hopefully I'm wrong on that part tho.

my apologies.

big difference between then and now is, 700 pages, a lot of views as well as coverage outside of the forums. SE can say they dont intend to do anything, which is their call. but they can no longer say "we didnt know about this"

[Isala]

They had data back then, and changed the design philosophy based on player feedback, and how the game played after changes. Just because they have raw numbers doesn't mean they completely and perfectly understand what those numbers mean, or even how to perfectly design in a way to fix these issues. Mistakes are made, and lessons are learned.
Doesn't mean I, or anyone in this thread knows the exact solution to solve this problem, but we don't need to be experts to know that there's an issue in the first place.

Edit: Congrats everyone on 700 pages. How far we've come with so many repeated arguments.

They keep claiming "player feedback", but honestly, I call BS. I truly believe they've gotten up their own asses with the ego that caused them to make the terrible decisions that led to 1.0 again. That mentality of "We know what our players want better than they do!" that they got stuck in over the massive success of XI. Heavensward was such a resounding success, that it was the peak of the XIV experience. Every expansion since then, has been a decline. Not to say that they were bad. But they did not reach HW's lofty heights. And now they're doubling, and tripling down on some really asinine decisions, all in the name of "player feedback" that doesn't even exist. Nobody is saying the things they're claiming we are. Even JP is questioning their decisions.

[Wildheaven182]

That's really bothersome to hear if it is increasing in cases happening.
I'd say that one could at least start with reporting them for it, using following..

・Obstructing Gameplay Using Combat
Refers to an act of obstructive behavior such as using specific skills in an unintended manner or taking advantage of battle mechanics to interfere with the gameplay of other players.

Seeing how the Tank is actively, as you describe it, killing off group members using the boss's mechanics I'd say it could very well be classified under "taking advantage of battle mechanics to interfere with the gameplay of other players".
And by doing so the tank is also actively enforcing ・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content. Content being the bossfight in question.
Hopefully this can at least give some repercussion to griefing Tanks out there.

I would say a warrior soloing a boss and forcing everyone else to sit there for ten minutes is also a violation. Healer not functionally fulfilling its role causes this.
Being tank doesn't mean you get to be invincible. ...forever. Maybe 8 seconds sometimes but you get the point.

[Bobby66]

You seem to be arguing from the position that SE has the data and so they cannot make the wrong decision.

We have seen that they have made a lot of decisions that were received very badly before, so just because they have the data still doesn't automatically mean they make the correct (or even the best) decisions.

The only difference here is that you have faith in SE, we don't.

That is not my argument, my argument is SE will use their own data as a bases to make changes, we can cry and whine all we want but if their data supports their view they will make adjustments around that. Hey make your posts state your concerns, I hope healers get what they want, but I am not holding my breath.

As stated I hate current smn, I want old smn back but no amount of crying or posting feedback will bring back old smn. Screaming into a void is fun and all, but yeah.

Edit: Correct choice is subjective, clearly they have a different view as to what is correct or right with game design.