The Chimera, the Monk and the Guard

[Rydin]

I Think the real issue behind this trouble IS NOT ONLY the raids design, i blame mostly the fact once someone has cleared the dungeon and POST IT on youtube , other people see it as a rule graved in stone "WE HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY TO WIN"... cause i be seen dungeons getin win with setups other than normally used before, as dungeons were released, but was the people always wantin to win bringing the same setup they saw, is sad how many of my LS leaders tell us "watch this video we gona do it that way" ... i really hate this.

I don't think its just a copy what you see video....
People "NEED" the fastest win because they know they'll have to spam this dungeon hundreds of times....
If you know you have to do something 200 times... even shaving 30 seconds per run is almost 2 hours of your live saved....

[Buddhsie]

I don't think its just a copy what you see video....
People "NEED" the fastest win because they know they'll have to spam this dungeon hundreds of times....
If you know you have to do something 200 times... even shaving 30 seconds per run is almost 2 hours of your live saved....

That's absurd.

People don't play this game to accomplish something quickly, they play it to enjoy themselves. Give someone a choice of bringing THM or BLM to Ifrit and they will pick BLM every time, not because it's ideal, but because it's new, interesting and more fun. You have no idea how many people each day ask to fight Ifrit as MNK or DRG.

There are obviously exceptions to this, however, but for timed content and events that are not a 'grind' in themselves; people enjoy the challenge and excitement of playing them as a less than ideal job simply because it's more fun to do them on a class they enjoy playing more. It's opression from party leaders and linkshell leaders that usually stops people from playing as the less than ideal classes, within reason. It can also be said that losing a fight playing as a class you enjoy is sometimes less fun than playing as one you do not.

[Yves]

That's absurd.

People don't play this game to accomplish something quickly, they play it to enjoy themselves. Give someone a choice of bringing THM or BLM to Ifrit and they will pick BLM every time, not because it's ideal, but because it's new, interesting and more fun. You have no idea how many people each day ask to fight Ifrit as MNK or DRG.

There are obviously exceptions to this, however, but for timed content and events that are not a 'grind' in themselves; people enjoy the challenge and excitement of playing them as a less than ideal job simply because it's more fun to do them on a class they enjoy playing more. It's opression from party leaders and linkshell leaders that usually stops people from playing as the less than ideal classes, within reason. It can also be said that losing a fight playing as a class you enjoy is sometimes less fun than playing as one you do not.

This is a function of the culture of each server and each sub-culture. While I certainly suspect that people are out there who do this primarily for fun, there a large number of players who believe fun exists in succeeding in the most efficient manner possible.

Also, remember, that doing something 200-300 times will eventually get old despite the possible variations. A lot of people are sick of CC and AV by now and are just doing it to get the gear. When you don't like something you are going to find the quickest means possible to achieve the desired goal so you can bail and do something more fun.

There is nothing absurd about realizing this limitation - a limitation that is a factor in the scope of humanity itself.

[BadOmen]

This is a function of the culture of each server and each sub-culture. While I certainly suspect that people are out there who do this primarily for fun, there a large number of players who believe fun exists in succeeding in the most efficient manner possible.

Also, remember, that doing something 200-300 times will eventually get old despite the possible variations. A lot of people are sick of CC and AV by now and are just doing it to get the gear. When you don't like something you are going to find the quickest means possible to achieve the desired goal so you can bail and do something more fun.

There is nothing absurd about realizing this limitation - a limitation that is a factor in the scope of humanity itself.

I Agreee with yah, but isnt this you tryin to defend be the reason why people get tired of a dungeon as well? be doing it repetitivelly the same way again and again and again without variation? why they restrict themselves into do so and not give it a variation by tryin new ways? well this is also an human condition. cant tell everyone what to do, but you can point at them the root of the problem.

[Rydin]

I Agreee with yah, but isnt this you tryin to defend be the reason why people get tired of a dungeon as well? be doing it repetitivelly the same way again and again and again without variation? why they restrict themselves into do so and not give it a variation by tryin new ways? well this is also an human condition. cant tell everyone what to do, but you can point at them the root of the problem.

You're very much correct... all the complaints about low drop rates and class stacking are by products of the "Lack of content" debate....
However, starting a thread about zero content seems pointless, since the PDFs give a definitive timetable on when content is coming...

That's absurd.

So trying to save time on something you'll have to do 200 times is absurd? What world do you live in?

newsflash... by the 200th speed run... It's not fun anymore...
It becomes a chore... and just like chores, people find the speediest most efficient way to complete them

[BadOmen]

So trying to save time on something you'll have to do 200 times is absurd? What world do you live in?

newsflash... by the 200th speed run... It's not fun anymore...
It becomes a chore... and just like chores, people find the speediest most efficient way to complete them

Have you forgot you playing a game in constant evolution? i feel sad for the people who play the game only for the satisfaction of have a gear that in a near future will be worthless compared to new one instead enjoy the fun and challenge of the content at the moment by playin the game the way they want instead be stressin themselves into get a gear that will be good only a few months....

That kind of people are the ones cryin later on about they wasted their time workin out their butts for awezome gear to find out there is new ones soon, while those other gamers who enjoyed game at the time of the dungeons playin the game as they wanted stare at them wondering "what are you cryin about? you forgot this a game you spent time to have fun at the moment, not something you play to aquire things for life, of course is a waste of time, is a game, not a work, enjoy the moment playing it".

The memories of you havin fun here doing things at that very moment is the only thing you will preserve from game, so why sacrifice your fun moments into stressin doing a dungeon to win a piece of armor that will be worthless in a couple months and ruinin everyone else game cause your rush?

Edit: by the way i know my gramar is horrible, i do it at porpouse, as a way of personal speech.

[Yves]

Have you forgot you playing a game in constant evolution? i feel sad for the people who play the game only for the satisfaction of have a gear that in a near future will be worthless compared to new one instead enjoy the fun and challenge of the content at the moment by playin the game the way they want instead be stressin themselves into get a gear that will be good only a few months....

That kind of people are the ones cryin later on about they wasted their time workin out their butts for awezome gear to find out there is new ones soon, while those other gamers who enjoyed game at the time of the dungeons playin the game as they wanted stare at them wondering "what are you cryin about? you forgot this a game you spent time to have fun at the moment, not something you play to aquire things for life, of course is a waste of time, is a game, not a work, enjoy the moment playing it".

The memories of you havin fun here doing things at that very moment is the only thing you will preserve from game, so why sacrifice your fun moments into stressin doing a dungeon to win a piece of armor that will be worthless in a couple months and ruinin everyone else game cause your rush?

Edit: by the way i know my gramar is horrible, i do it at porpouse, as a way of personal speech.

There are players like what you describe but I find satisfaction in a style of gameplay that appears to be this on the surface, however, it is not. I play to have fun with my friends. I also find great satisfaction in the idea that we/I can do something in a highly organized and highly effective manner. Success is not the goal - success through excellent execution is the goal. This probably has a lot to do with being an athlete but that's something that drives me. Perfect what it is you do, refine, refine, refine and innovate but only when necessary. I like to win, but, believe it or not, I can take more pride and satisfaction in a narrow loss if I/we executed properly but were simply out-gunned as opposed to a sloppy win. In fact, a sloppy win will irritate me to no end while a perfect loss has me saying "maybe next time..."

Like I said, this looks like what you are describing but it isn't based on the gear - it is based on the experience and the achievement and sharing it with those you care about. I don't mind people aiming for new methods but being told that what I derive enjoyment is wrong is pretty much weaksauce with a chaser of PBR. We have a system that we deem to be the most efficient as of right now and we will use it until perfected. However, after it's all said and done we do like to screw around and try new things for kicks.

[BadOmen]

I don't think its just a copy what you see video....
People "NEED" the fastest win because they know they'll have to spam this dungeon hundreds of times....
If you know you have to do something 200 times... even shaving 30 seconds per run is almost 2 hours of your live saved....

the thing dear isnt like that, example in ifrit... when they released Ifrit, at least on my server, they started bringing tank, conjurer, lnc... as main stup, after long after when people started to test out other methods found out archer was better than lnc.... and at this time, at least on my case, i had 4 LS doing ifrit, on all them i asked what about bring a thm? i had only pug and thm at that time, everyone laughed at me and said, "thm is worthless for this fight, no one brings that job."

Then long time after, when most of people had their weapons and started tryin out stuff they considered Taboo cause no one was doing.... found out that bring thm was actually way better than bringing lancer or archer....

So im sorry to dissagree with yah but doubt you be right about it.

Edit; by the way, dont you find it funny nowdays everyone want to do Ifrit Fight with a bunch of BLMs instead melees or archers?, a job that back then (when there was no yet BLM but thm and was easier to run while casting) was considered a worthless class for that fight cause back then everyone was doing it only lnc as damage dealer cause they saw it on a video?.

[Sigmakan]

Edit; by the way, dont you find it funny nowdays everyone want to do Ifrit Fight with a bunch of BLMs instead melees or archers?, a job that back then (when there was no yet BLM but thm and was easier to run while casting) was considered a worthless class for that fight cause back then everyone was doing it only lnc as damage dealer cause they saw it on a video?.

Um . . . thats mostly due to the major battle changes that took place in 1.20.

[BadOmen]

Um . . . thats mostly due to the major battle changes that took place in 1.20.

No it isnt, people started find out thm was better before they released blm or made mayor changes to thm.