The Chimera, the Monk and the Guard

[Yves]

That's absurd.

People don't play this game to accomplish something quickly, they play it to enjoy themselves. Give someone a choice of bringing THM or BLM to Ifrit and they will pick BLM every time, not because it's ideal, but because it's new, interesting and more fun. You have no idea how many people each day ask to fight Ifrit as MNK or DRG.

There are obviously exceptions to this, however, but for timed content and events that are not a 'grind' in themselves; people enjoy the challenge and excitement of playing them as a less than ideal job simply because it's more fun to do them on a class they enjoy playing more. It's opression from party leaders and linkshell leaders that usually stops people from playing as the less than ideal classes, within reason. It can also be said that losing a fight playing as a class you enjoy is sometimes less fun than playing as one you do not.

This is a function of the culture of each server and each sub-culture. While I certainly suspect that people are out there who do this primarily for fun, there a large number of players who believe fun exists in succeeding in the most efficient manner possible.

Also, remember, that doing something 200-300 times will eventually get old despite the possible variations. A lot of people are sick of CC and AV by now and are just doing it to get the gear. When you don't like something you are going to find the quickest means possible to achieve the desired goal so you can bail and do something more fun.

There is nothing absurd about realizing this limitation - a limitation that is a factor in the scope of humanity itself.

[Tigercub]

Give me my proper freaking MNK HP and stop making end game content so AoE heavy on both sides.
What is this ~2000 HP garbage where we die in one or two hits? Monk is supposed to be the HP heavy class. That's why we get stuck in light armor. What use is our high single target DPS when we die without even getting enmity on single bosses and the rest of the time we're fighting 5+ mobs?

Some things are just so obvious it makes you groan with frustration that SE is collectively too stupid to figure them out by now. But then I guess we're talking about the same people who thought that treasure hunter and "hate control" (like tanks needed it) made up for the fact that thief was inferior DPS for practically the entirety of FFXI's existence, amongst plethora other job balance issues that never got addressed and in some cases only got worse.

[BadOmen]

This is a function of the culture of each server and each sub-culture. While I certainly suspect that people are out there who do this primarily for fun, there a large number of players who believe fun exists in succeeding in the most efficient manner possible.

Also, remember, that doing something 200-300 times will eventually get old despite the possible variations. A lot of people are sick of CC and AV by now and are just doing it to get the gear. When you don't like something you are going to find the quickest means possible to achieve the desired goal so you can bail and do something more fun.

There is nothing absurd about realizing this limitation - a limitation that is a factor in the scope of humanity itself.

I Agreee with yah, but isnt this you tryin to defend be the reason why people get tired of a dungeon as well? be doing it repetitivelly the same way again and again and again without variation? why they restrict themselves into do so and not give it a variation by tryin new ways? well this is also an human condition. cant tell everyone what to do, but you can point at them the root of the problem.

[Sigmakan]

Edit; by the way, dont you find it funny nowdays everyone want to do Ifrit Fight with a bunch of BLMs instead melees or archers?, a job that back then (when there was no yet BLM but thm and was easier to run while casting) was considered a worthless class for that fight cause back then everyone was doing it only lnc as damage dealer cause they saw it on a video?.

Um . . . thats mostly due to the major battle changes that took place in 1.20.

[BadOmen]

Um . . . thats mostly due to the major battle changes that took place in 1.20.

No it isnt, people started find out thm was better before they released blm or made mayor changes to thm.

[Rydin]

I Agreee with yah, but isnt this you tryin to defend be the reason why people get tired of a dungeon as well? be doing it repetitivelly the same way again and again and again without variation? why they restrict themselves into do so and not give it a variation by tryin new ways? well this is also an human condition. cant tell everyone what to do, but you can point at them the root of the problem.

You're very much correct... all the complaints about low drop rates and class stacking are by products of the "Lack of content" debate....
However, starting a thread about zero content seems pointless, since the PDFs give a definitive timetable on when content is coming...

That's absurd.

So trying to save time on something you'll have to do 200 times is absurd? What world do you live in?

newsflash... by the 200th speed run... It's not fun anymore...
It becomes a chore... and just like chores, people find the speediest most efficient way to complete them

[Sigmakan]

No it isnt, people started find out thm was better before they released blm or made mayor changes to thm.

Out of curiosity what spells were the THMs using for their damage?

[Relic]

Give me my proper freaking MNK HP and stop making end game content so AoE heavy on both sides.
What is this ~2000 HP garbage where we die in one or two hits? Monk is supposed to be the HP heavy class. That's why we get stuck in light armor. What use is our high single target DPS when we die without even getting enmity on single bosses and the rest of the time we're fighting 5+ mobs?

Some things are just so obvious it makes you groan with frustration that SE is collectively too stupid to figure them out by now. But then I guess we're talking about the same people who thought that treasure hunter and "hate control" (like tanks needed it) made up for the fact that thief was inferior DPS for practically the entirety of FFXI's existence, amongst plethora other job balance issues that never got addressed and in some cases only got worse.

I agree...if we're going to take that close range AoE, buff the hp.

[Sigmakan]

I agree...if we're going to take that close range AoE, buff the hp.

That would be nice :/

[Kiara]

While I totally understand wanting to play your preferred class in every situation, it's just not practical to expect this for every event/raid/primal/NM. In order to have dynamic battles, and raids, you will always get a 'preferred setup' for each different situation...the trick is 1.making sure every job and class has it's own content to shine in. and 2. making sure that content is still clearable by mixed 'less-optimal' groups.

Definitely agree.

While in a perfect world, every single fight would allow every single class / job to be just as efficient, as Kinsey and others have pointed out, it would lead to a very homogenized feeling.

If every single Damage Dealer could do the same amount of damage / be equally desirable in every single Dungeon / NM / Fight, what would be the point of creating different Jobs? It would lead to a very bland feeling IMHO.

In the long run, if Yoshida-san creates *enough* content (soon enough) so that there are Dungeons / NMs that allow each Job to really shine (and allows certain idiosyncratic Actions / Abilities of a Job to be highlighted / standout), *and* they make sure to balance the Dungeons / NMs so that all Jobs can perform reasonably well (i.e., not too much of a disadvantage), then that'd be ideal.

The problem is right now, there is so little Max Level Content (and not enough experiences that really highlight certain Jobs) that Jobs / Classes that are "not as optimal" are really feeling left out.

I wouldn't mind seeing a future situation where, say:

* Dungeon A: Dragoons, White Mage can really shine.
* Dungeon B: Monk, Warrior can really shine.
* Dungeon C: Paladin, Black Mage can really shine.
* Dungeon D: Bard, etc. can really shine.

But in all Dungeons the other Jobs are still effective enough to clear reasonably well (BTW, all current content can be done with all Jobs just fine, but I mean to the point that mainstream / casual players can see the light, and realize that).

Ultimately, though, as Rydin and Madruk have mentioned, SE's mentality on making super low drop rates is pushing those players / LSs / groups that want to get all the drops to have to spam a Dungeon repeatedly, hundreds of times, to get what they want.

So in those situations, many people would take what they felt was "most efficient" and spam that content repeatedly to get what they wanted.

Will there ever be a perfect solution to make sure all Jobs play equally well against every single NM / Dungeon, and can clear content just as fast, regardless of Job? That probably won't happen.

But hopefully there will be enough Max Level Content soon that allows each Job to shine and standout that there won't be any "Job / Class Prejudice" by the community overall (like in the early days of XI, where Dragoon was known as "loldrg", or how currently, Paladins are generally not as sought after (because of limited, current content we have now)).

Perhaps with enough Content where each Job is the star, that players' mindsets might *change* and people might think outside the box (outside cookie cutter setups)?

Where after experiencing, say, 7 different Dungeons / NMs where each Job was really highlighted, players in general might realize that "Hey, I saw [JOB XYZ] kick butt in Dungeon A... I feel confident inviting them for Dungeon B and C." etc.

Part of it might be education and getting more in-depth, meaningful experiences (across the whole player base) of seeing each Job excel, where they might then realize that all Jobs could be very effective in whichever Dungeon they take on.

Another part is as many have said, with the super low Drop Rates and the emphasis on Speed Runs as a condition for certain loot.