no idea so pissy healer I do guess

[WarGiver]

TLDR: More DPS buttons are good for existing healers but bad for _getting_ new healers.

Before I start, I do agree that more interesting buttons could be added however there are points that are always overlooked. Experienced healers want more fun, but when they complain its always from the angle of "This is what will be fun for me" not "This is what will help the role.

I generally do not speak up on this but I will just point out three things:

1. The low healer population we currently have is because of anxiety over being able to handle healing. Needing to juggle a dps rotation and healing will be even scarier to new healers to even try. I know we experienced healers can handle it but that is NOT my point. We need more people to try it and making what they have to do scary is not going to help.

2. If we start adding rotations then healers will start feeling they should only do oGCD heals and CD heals will end up getting under used. People min/max dps enough as it is, if that spreads to healers trying to min/max DPS instead of doing the job of healing things will suffer.

3. New healers ARE vote kicked from dungeons for making _DPS_ mistakes today. I have tested this, deny it if you want but it is fact.

I made a new alt and after hitting 50 tried doing leveling dungeons, I got kicked on the FIRST trash pull several times (Leveling from 50-60) for single target dps while making sure healing was done right, I had a sprout icon and acted like a new player and got treated like trash. This happens with just two spam buttons, single target and AOE. One of the times was during a mid wall to wall pull, right in the middle of the first fight in the middle of the fight I was yelled at for sloppy DPS and kicked.

Again the current environment would rather wait 10-15 minutes in a dungeon for a replacement healer at times then even try with any healer. Making a Healer do more DPS WILL scare people from the role. AND add more toxicity for healers that cannot do more damage.

[Nero-Voidstails]

TLDR: More DPS buttons are good for existing healers but bad for _getting_ new healers.

Before I start, I do agree that more interesting buttons could be added however there are points that are always overlooked. Experienced healers want more fun, but when they complain its always from the angle of "This is what will be fun for me" not "This is what will help the role.

I generally do not speak up on this but I will just point out three things:

1. The low healer population we currently have is because of anxiety over being able to handle healing. Needing to juggle a dps rotation and healing will be even scarier to new healers to even try. I know we experienced healers can handle it but that is NOT my point. We need more people to try it and making what they have to do scary is not going to help.

2. If we start adding rotations then healers will start feeling they should only do oGCD heals and CD heals will end up getting under used. People min/max dps enough as it is, if that spreads to healers trying to min/max DPS instead of doing the job of healing things will suffer.

3. New healers ARE vote kicked from dungeons for making _DPS_ mistakes today. I have tested this, deny it if you want but it is fact.

I made a new alt and after hitting 50 tried doing leveling dungeons, I got kicked on the FIRST trash pull several times (Leveling from 50-60) for single target dps while making sure healing was done right, I had a sprout icon and acted like a new player and got treated like trash. This happens with just two spam buttons, single target and AOE. One of the times was during a mid wall to wall pull, right in the middle of the first fight in the middle of the fight I was yelled at for sloppy DPS and kicked.

Again the current environment would rather wait 10-15 minutes in a dungeon for a replacement healer at times then even try with any healer. Making a Healer do more DPS WILL scare people from the role. AND add more toxicity for healers that cannot do more damage.

I want into the dungeon LV 85 and the tank pulled out of my sacred soil as a sch so I rescue him inside and he want so salty that he stopped everything and left when he died like wow dude really? on a dungeon we can't ask back up other they FC or irl friend due to PF and dynamis anyone who said they're isn't any problem they're is the more it goes the more it become toxic

[vetch]

Healers used to do things that made them feel more healing-focused and support-focused but all those actions were taken away slowly:

• Spot healing because players (tanks) could take critical damage. Gone.
• Spot healing because a tank cooldown use to cause tanks to take critical damage. Gone.
• Poor aggro management causing other players to take aggro, take damage, cause spot healing. Gone.
• Commonality of debuffs required for Esuna. Gone.
• Tanks needing Esuna for Pacification. Gone.
• Raidwide debuffs where Selene's AOE Esuna was useful. Gone, just like Selene.
• Healer mitigation debuffs like Eye for an Eye or Disable. Reworked, and accessible by all roles now.
• Healer crowd control like sleep, stun, knockback, bind, slow, heavy. Gone, only Holy and Repose remain.
• Healer utility to restore MP or TP, increase action speed, increase critical hit rate, extend buffs. Greatly altered, reduced, changed or gone.

All of these functions were nerfed or removed--taken away, repackaged and given back--limited in their use then reinforced in that limitation--one after another--in HW, then SB, then ShB, then EW.

It's telling that so many of these are about mitigating possible failure states. Almost as if good gameplay requires some kind of threat of failure.

Even the remaining gameplay is built upon the failure state of 'do damage fast enough or you lose the fight/your self-respect'. I don't know why that one's sacred yet they felt comfortable getting rid of the things that made tanking and healing fun.

[GrimGale]

Needing to juggle a dps rotation and healing will be even scarier to new healers to even try.

Damage taken is already pretty low for dungeon content. We've had plenty of new healer players come into the forums and tells us they were getting bored out of pressing the same buttons. In any case, healer's primary role is to keep the party alive, doing a DPS is a healer's secondary concern. Most healers and players in general agree to this fact. Adding more DPS buttons doesn't change the healer role or what players expect from it.

If we start adding rotations then healers will start feeling they should only do oGCD heals and CD heals will end up getting under used.

That already happens now. It's not gonna get worse by adding more buttons.

New healers ARE vote kicked from dungeons for making _DPS_ mistakes today. I have tested this, deny it if you want but it is fact.

I don't believe you. I play in EU realms. In my 12 years playing this game I have never ever been given attention for not dpsing enough. I have been kicked for failing to heal my tank though. (Even though I was actively healing them and they kept getting AoEs to the face.)

[Connor]

Most healers and players in general agree to this fact. Adding more DPS buttons doesn't change the healer role or what players expect from it.

Not trying to be contrarian but how would a new player possibly know that their dps tools are entirely optional in a world where they have significantly increased dps options? Especially if they do Hall of Novice and see the ‘spam dps when not casting heals’ message. Surely newer players would come to the logical conclusion that ‘I have all these dps buttons now so I guess they want me to do that as much as I heal’, not ‘I have all these dps buttons but I don’t need to press any of them if I don’t want to’

don't believe you. I play in EU realms. In my 12 years playing this game I have never ever been given attention for not dpsing enough. I have been kicked for failing to heal my tank though. (Even though I was actively healing them and they kept getting AoEs to the face.)

Murphy’s Law. If something can conceivably go bad, it will. Having played since ARR I’ve seen it all.
‘You’re healing too much do some dps!’
‘You’re dps’ing too much do some healing!’
‘Why are you using ‘X’ skill when it’s a dps loss’
‘Why are you casting ‘X’ attack when you should be healing’

Regardless of what someone decides to pick on ofc the complaints are heavily misguided and suggest a misunderstanding of the role, but there does sadly exist a small subsection of people who basically the think healers are some kind of glorified trust npc they can give direct commands to. That said, such players are also likely to pick on anything that’s not correct, whether it’s a healer hard casting Cure II, a tank using the wrong cool-down, dps using a buff outside of 120 window.

The real question is; how far should they really go to ‘protect’ people from this (albeit rare) type of player? Is changing the entire game design to lean absolute simplification really an appropriate measure to ‘reduce player friction’?

[Teno]

I must apologize first English isn't my first language so be kind to me thanks you.

so my complain is simple and I think no one speak about it really due to the community kinda being butthole about it so I will still say it.


why do we get more DPS? why I aren't getting more heal? why cant I heal I don't say to just heal no but like I play the ROLE heal because I wanna heal if I want to be a DPS I will go play the DPS role.


I play healer in multiple game since we'll always I love to see those big green number or those big shield it's amazing to see those but when I just have to slap a Regen and DPS I don't feel engaged toy role it feel... wrong you know?


sage does DPS to heal fine I take it I also enjoy it but like all healer should be like that but can't heal while doing DPS? it feel wrong once more white mage use holy magic or non elemental but is all about heal and decent DPS as you cast those heal speaking about the Rose.


scholar is a smartass and have a fairy girlfriend(take this as a joke) but the fairy is the main mech in here so why is it so bad and barely do anything? I should be able to have to fairy does buff and all while I cast my aetherflow or shield the fairy should be doing decent healing as you order her. make seraph better like a permanent summon instead I always forgot she's a thing x).
but what I mean her is the fairy should do more you know.


astro is all about fate and space so as it is right now I don't have much to say other then maybe having both stance back since we still have neutral sect




back to the point is that I play healer for the fat green number not to simply DPS I feel like the more we go the more useless the healer role become when we are told go do extreme and savage. I just find it a shitty response like I want harder job to learn and master and feel unique not a copy and paste tanks having to much healing is also super crap because well glare broil or whatever healer you are. just make me feel I am playimg the role I am not a bad DPS.


thanks you all for reading may you all have a nice day

Healers in FFXIV have always been green dps, period. This is how people like it and have played FFXIV since ARR. Heck, even in WoW they're strongly veering towards the support design, with a lot of offensive options and a good healer being recognizable by his ability to pump out dps while healing. Even the MDI (huge official pve tournament in dungeons with very fierce competition and high cash prize) had healers removed in some dungeons and comps, despite the need for healing being 100x times that of any fight FFXIV will ever have.

Tank/Heal/Dps is a relic of the past.
Staring at hp bars for the entire duration of the fight is also a thing of the past, something even devs acknowledge.

[GrimGale]

Not trying to be contrarian but how would a new player possibly know that their dps tools are entirely optional in a world where they have significantly increased dps options? Especially if they do Hall of Novice and see the ‘spam dps when not casting heals’ message.

Because it says "spam dps when NOT casting heals." The hall of the noice does tell you it's your first duty to heal. But they also don't want you to stand idle when your team is not in danger. Not sure how that equals you should have anxiety about doing DPS.
Also, not sure what you think Forum wants when they ask for "DPS rotations". The suggestions here are quite simple. It's either adding an extra DoT to manage, which is not exactly stressful considering you have plenty of time to let it run its course, or just add another button to break down the monotoy of the Nuke spam. Nobody has ever asked for DPS job level of rotation that'd be insane. Not even tanks have those.

[BlueMageQuina]

It's telling that so many of these are about mitigating possible failure states. Almost as if good gameplay requires some kind of threat of failure.

Even the remaining gameplay is built upon the failure state of 'do damage fast enough or you lose the fight/your self-respect'. I don't know why that one's sacred yet they felt comfortable getting rid of the things that made tanking and healing fun.

Worded so perfectly. I think this is a core part of healers’ arguments. The past few expansions have simplified the game so far as to remove most failure states and the primary failure states we have are wiping or enrage. With the current game design, each healer has more than enough tools to prevent wiping in at least somewhat an engaging way, but we do not have the tools to prevent enrage in an engaging way. I suppose when put into this purview, healers want either more failure states to prevent or more engaging ways to prevent the two failure states that still remain.

Edit: and to add, this bleeds into why many want tank and DPS heals and mitigations removed or nerfed; it encroaches on our ability to prevent failure states as is the purpose of our role.

[Connor]

Because it says "spam dps when NOT casting heals." The hall of the noice does tell you it's your first duty to heal. But they also don't want you to stand idle when your team is not in danger. Not sure how that equals you should have anxiety about doing DPS.
Also, not sure what you think Forum wants when they ask for "DPS rotations". The suggestions here are quite simple. It's either adding an extra DoT to manage, which is not exactly stressful considering you have plenty of time to let it run its course, or just add another button to break down the monotoy of the Nuke spam. Nobody has ever asked for DPS job level of rotation that'd be insane. Not even tanks have those.

Isn’t that essentially what they’re doing though? Sage gets a new on-demand aoe DoT, White Mage gets…that thing it does instead of Glare, Scholar and Astrologian get a new attack ability (on a 120s cool-down lol). Wouldn’t those abilities only require minor tweaks (i.e not being tied to a 120s cool-down lol) to fit those criteria?

I’m not asking to be facetious or dismissive either which I know can be quite common sometimes on the forum lol. I’m just trying to better my understanding of the issue(s). Like, would it be enough if they made the two new DoTs on Sage/Scholar or the new attacks for White Mage / Astrologian into actual GCDs with MP costs?

[GrimGale]

Isn’t that essentially what they’re doing though? Sage gets a new on-demand aoe DoT, White Mage gets…that thing it does instead of Glare, Scholar and Astrologian get a new attack ability (on a 120s cool-down lol). Wouldn’t those abilities only require minor tweaks (i.e not being tied to a 120s cool-down lol) to fit those criteria?

I’m not asking to be facetious or dismissive either which I know can be quite common sometimes on the forum lol. I’m just trying to better my understanding of the issue(s). Like, would it be enough if they made the two new DoTs on Sage/Scholar or the new attacks for White Mage / Astrologian into actual GCDs with MP costs?

Yes! That's why it's such a shame that we got given these 2min oGCD actions. They do NOTHING to make our nukespam better. (Except maybe for WHM? It's still on a 2min skill. That's 3 GCDs every two minutes. It's nothing.) They don't break the continuity of the GCD usage. We don't need six new abilities, just something that we actively press to avoid hitting the same skill twelve times in a row before we reapply our dots.

For example, making Dosis have a 50% chance to grant Addersting (Which lets you use Toxikon) and then have Toxikon be a slight dps gain over Dosis (400 potency for example?) would already make Sage much more involved in the buttons they press.

Or having Dia proc Sacred Sight allowing WHM to use Glare IV.

Only minor tweaks, each unique to the Job to break the Nukespam would be absolutely enough for me. (From what I gather, it would be enough for the rest of the forum too- One of the most popular demands here is the reintroduction of Miasma III or two DoTs. Having full on DPS rotations was never a thing here. We mostly just wanted to have our pre-ShB dps kits back.)