no idea so pissy healer I do guess

[SpiralMask]

Yes! That's why it's such a shame that we got given these 2min oGCD actions. They do NOTHING to make our nukespam better. (Except maybe for WHM? It's still on a 2min skill. That's 3 GCDs every two minutes. It's nothing.) They don't break the continuity of the GCD usage. We don't need six new abilities, just something that we actively press to avoid hitting the same skill twelve times in a row before we reapply our dots.

For example, making Dosis have a 50% chance to grant Addersting (Which lets you use Toxikon) and then have Toxikon be a slight dps gain over Dosis (400 potency for example?) would already make Sage much more involved in the buttons they press.

Or having Dia proc Sacred Sight allowing WHM to use Glare IV.

Only minor tweaks, each unique to the Job to break the Nukespam would be absolutely enough for me. (From what I gather, it would be enough for the rest of the forum too- One of the most popular demands here is the reintroduction of Miasma III or two DoTs. Having full on DPS rotations was never a thing here. We mostly just wanted to have our pre-ShB dps kits back.)

heck, there's even avenues outside of straight dps that could serve the same purpose of filling space for those broils/glares/etc, like debuffs (30s gcd for a mini-addle or mini-feint that's overwritten by their role-action cousins? bad breath's minor dmg down from BLU? reduced enemy crit rate, etc), buffs (selene had a few that are now lost to time, maybe bring those back as fairy gauge spenders? WHM too iirc), more floor placed zones for stuff (touching the zone grants an effect of some kind while inside and a short time after leaving), fussing with pre-existing class mechanics (bringing back AST's card effect/duration/aoe modulations, adding more fairy guage functionality than [literally just the tether], etc)...

[GrimGale]

heck, there's even avenues outside of straight dps that could serve the same purpose of filling space for those broils/glares/etc, like debuffs (30s gcd for a mini-addle or mini-feint that's overwritten by their role-action cousins? bad breath's minor dmg down from BLU? reduced enemy crit rate, etc), buffs (selene had a few that are now lost to time, maybe bring those back as fairy gauge spenders? WHM too iirc), more floor placed zones for stuff (touching the zone grants an effect of some kind while inside and a short time after leaving), fussing with pre-existing class mechanics (bringing back AST's card effect/duration/aoe modulations, adding more fairy guage functionality than [literally just the tether], etc)...

I wish this game had space for utility. It's been systematically removed from the game. That's why debuffs are barely a thing beyond the situational use when the boss does a thing. DPS and buffs are always useful because it's always fulfilling the win condition. Debuffs, CCs and all utility tends to just momentarily delay the loss condition if the situation demands for it. You don't spam feint/addle on an enemy that's just autoattacking. You use it for big hits. If the enemy isn't doing something special, those debuffs are wasted.

It's easier to add a small layer of complexity that breaks the nukespam than it is to revamp the game system to re-include useful utility. (Though I'd love to have debuffs back myself.)

[glamazon]

This! Utility is the answer we seek. Tanks and all Dps classes need to be stripped of their group utility and those abilities should be divided between all four healers who can now be rebranded as SUPPORT. That will give us something to do: BUFFING OUR PARTY without having us spam glare one thousand times.

Tanks tank they aren't supposed to be providing support. DPS should be doing damage! They don't need group support utility. Personal? Fine. Group? No. Leave that for teh new Support class who will cover heals and buffs

[Ayalu]

The Japanese Side of the Community tends to ask for more complexe heal instead of damage options. So getting Utility might be close to a compromise.

I would agree that big support abilties probably should be on us healers and not every other class with exceptions. Red Mage having some makes sense on the basis they use black and white magic, but that would suggest White Magic has such things.

[SpiralMask]

The Japanese Side of the Community tends to ask for more complexe heal instead of damage options. So getting Utility might be close to a compromise.

I would agree that big support abilties probably should be on us healers and not every other class with exceptions. Red Mage having some makes sense on the basis they use black and white magic, but that would suggest White Magic has such things.

more need for healing--irregular damage, rapid damage, sustained party-wide damage, and so on could also serve to reduce the amount of glares and such going out by presumably spending those on more healing as needed

or more taxing or complex healing mechanics:
- maybe a boss will slap someone with a brief "healing causes damage instead, or causes a buildup for [bad things] if someone falls below X health threshold or is below that at time of application"
- or "debuff the party that if more than one person receives healing from the same source causes [bad things], and now healing X person swaps to Y person instead. heal the correct targets for this duration while i throw out randomly-targeted damage to people in the party"
- or "i'mma throw a cleansable debuff on people that will explode if it's timer fully expires, but does X secondary thing for a mechanic. esuna-ing it instead swaps it for another debuff that does Y secondary thing for a mechanic and refreshes the duration. you and your co-healer must juggle who has what debuff via coordinating esunas without letting any of the debuff timers naturally expire across the party (set during a low-damage phase where the party is dancing between colored zones and marker attacks that can be dodged by having the correct debuff)"
- or a boss throws a DoT on targets that ramps up/gains stacks and becomes cleanse-able under certain conditions or phases of the fight, and doing so strips the spare stacks rather than the entire thing (having healing needs wax and wane more rapidly, possibly differently across individual party members)

[bad things] being vuln stacks, damage down, a massive DoT that needs to be babysat for a bit, two-touch death (so there's a telegraph if someone's going to suddenly hit the floor and needs managing), etc.
NOT direct instantkill failure/partywipe, since all these constant oneshot mechanics also serve to obviate the need for a healer, since any single screwup instantly fails the fight and leaves the target or entire party dead outright, rather than healers getting to serve as a means to recover (heh) from that situation.
fights should be made harder if someone messes up, but be able to be dragged back if the party gets it together and the healers can get everything cleaned up before it gets even hairier.

[Absurdity]

Also, I think I understand the point. It seems silly for people in the ‘healer’ role to be advocating for more involved dps abilities when the whole point of the role is traditionally understood as ‘healing/support/buff/debuff/whatever’ as opposed to direct damage.

Someone's definition of healer or support also depends on their "gaming background".
If you previously played healer in WoW then you expect them to be HP batteries that make the green bar go up constantly.
Try telling someone who played a DnD Cleric that their only purpose is to make HP bars go up though and they'll laugh in your face.

[Ramiee]

The Japanese Side of the Community tends to ask for more complexe heal instead of damage options. So getting Utility might be close to a compromise.

I would agree that big support abilties probably should be on us healers and not every other class with exceptions. Red Mage having some makes sense on the basis they use black and white magic, but that would suggest White Magic has such things.

If the dev team truly wants to compromise they'd make some healers appeal to westerners while having some appeal to JP.
Id want healing does damage for JP have heals burst out damage of those around them and a kardia tag for single target. Then damage/heal balancing act for western players.
I have no idea if JP will ever change their opinion because culturally they seem to like roles being limited to their role.(we would have to see if tanks losing their rotation if this is really true.)

[Connor]

Someone's definition of healer or support also depends on their "gaming background".
If you previously played healer in WoW then you expect them to be HP batteries that make the green bar go up constantly.
Try telling someone who played a DnD Cleric that their only purpose is to make HP bars go up though and they'll laugh in your face.

Having literally never touched WoW I frankly have no idea what you’re talking about. It takes some heavy mental gymnastics to assume ‘healing/support/buff/debuff’ literally means ‘sPaM 1 bUtTon to mAkE bAr go uP’.

DnD is a tabletop RPG. Final Fantasy XIV is an online RPG. I really don’t see how the two can be compared in any way besides the obvious influence D&D had on FF1 (which still isn’t ffxiv)

I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. ‘I RP’d an aggressive Cleric that hit someone with a mace in a pen-and-paper tabletop RPG so clearly aggressive DPS mace user must be the archetype for every future healer ‘class’ in any RPG including an online console/pc multiplayer game’

[Teno]

If the dev team truly wants to compromise they'd make some healers appeal to westerners while having some appeal to JP.
Id want healing does damage for JP have heals burst out damage of those around them and a kardia tag for single target. Then damage/heal balancing act for western players.
I have no idea if JP will ever change their opinion because culturally they seem to like roles being limited to their role.(we would have to see if tanks losing their rotation if this is really true.)

Exactly, so far all they've done is cater to the japanese playerbase, which only discusses the endless amount of ogcd bloat heals so no wonder we're stuck with this garbage design. They like sticking to the role thematic even though this game is going past that if everyone having heals tells anything.

[Teno]

Someone's definition of healer or support also depends on their "gaming background".
If you previously played healer in WoW then you expect them to be HP batteries that make the green bar go up constantly.
Try telling someone who played a DnD Cleric that their only purpose is to make HP bars go up though and they'll laugh in your face.

Very wrong about wow. Healers in wow now have a plethora of offensive options, and are expected to dps in any relevant content. If anything even in casual content you'll now get remarks for standing around doing nothing, which wasn't the case before. Dps is now widely acknowledge to be a good indicator of a healer's skill, despite the much higher need for heals than ffxiv will ever have.