Quote Originally Posted by Rithy255 View Post
Healing isn't a tanks purview? Then healers shouldn't have mitigation and DPS because it's not their purview. (This is weak logic, as role(s) esp support like tanks should be able to dive more into utility) Honestly It feels like people who just want to entirely remove tank sustain don't even know the issue in the first place, It's not just some tanks having funny self healing it's the full design of healers as a whole, combined with tank design not accounting for how badly healers are designed.

Theirs nothing wrong with sustain, it's the excessiveness of that said sustain, Holy Sheltron on it's own wouldn't be overbearing Its the fact it's ontop of PLD's magic healing kit.
Gunbreaker has a fairly Balanced sustain kit.

Warrior is a example where yes the sustain has gone too far, Besides it making zero sense that warrior is a party group healer tank, the fact is it's sustain in AOE is absurd, it has too much sustain tools for far little down sides.

Even if we removed every tank expect for Dark Knight would healing be that much better? Of course not The issue is way deeper then some self sustain on tanks, which can all be fairly balanced with healer design instead of "lets take more from tanks so healers feel slightly better". When the issue is the design of healers, tanks and fight design, Simply removing Sustain from tanks doesn't fix that at all.

I do think yeah tanks can be toned down in current design (warrior mostly), but It's not going to suddenly be a fix for healer design, tank sustain wouldn't be a issue if fight design actually accounted for some form of sustain
Healer design is shit, literally nobody denies that. That doesn’t mean that tanks should be self sufficient in casual content. DRK’s sustain should be the goal here not the weak link. Again this is independent of healer problems

If tanks want agency to survive independent of the healer that should come from active mitigation or channeled mitigation (ie skills like clemency or chenolian gate), if you want to survive outside of your healer you should have to lose damage for it. HS/HOC/BW are all problems because you are giving up nothing to receive a free heal, if they healed for nothing you would still press them because they are mitigation. And the healing of all of them is excessive, why is HOC better than excog, why does HS give that much regen considering you can stack charges, why does BW exist in any form.

Tank healing shouldn’t be free, it’s why I also oppose the level of free mitigation the DPS have. Shield healers have mitigation purview as it’s their entire job but like the healers who want limitless healing NOW they have to give up damage for it

Again this is entirely independent of how shit healers are in spite of this fact