New Tank Skills

[Moqi]

Vengance is already like that ever since. It is the only 30% mitigation with an additional effect. Sentinel/Shadow Wall/Nebula are just 30% mitigation. Nothing else. Sentinel used to be 40% but since it was deemed better than the 30% from Vengance, it was nerfed to 30% (trait removed) yet the damage reflect from Vengance is still intact, to this day.

I know? That's why I said what I said.

[Rithy255]

I'm not expecting much from the 30% mit upgrade, I think its pretty likely that they'll all still more or less do what they do now, just either slightly more or with a lowercooldown, with WAR retaining its dev favorite trait on it because of course.

I'd love for them to be more individualized as stated before, but that sort of design is expecting a lot from this game.

What I'd kind of like if "30%" got Upgrades, all could target another player.
DRK - 30% With a 5% Shield that Reapplies the Shield against once broken (3-5 Stacks?)
PLD - 30% With a Big Shield such as 15%
War - 40% With the built in attack on Hit.
GNB - 30% With a slight shorter CD. (Likely the most strongest, so this could be changed, DM having 60s generally makes it super strong in magic situations).

Although i think they should Remove rampart in general it's really boring, Adding strength to DM, Bulwark, Thrill, Camo ect also. I do think tanks base defensiveness (zero mitigation) should be lowered a bit too, so cycling or timing your strong mitigations becomes important even in basic content.

[Sylvain]

If anything I just hope they're more ok with GNB DRK existing as the big damage tanks and WAR/PLD existing as the big support tanks.

I'm excited to see what DRK GCDs could be like.

The issue is that they all need to be good at both things.
DPS is king, so unless "dps tank" means doing less than 1% more, then you end up having a meta which isn't good. Unless you prefer "bring the job not the player".

Different rotation style and complexity are fine, but in the end, they all need to bring equivalent things to the table.

I hope DRK gets "The black night at lower level, something like -10% absorb but cost 0 mp (and grants nothing when it breaks) to help a bit at lower level.

I'm excited for the new GCD's too, but i'm also worried.
At the start of EW, we got Shadowbringer - which made Drk and Gnb the dps tanks.
But in the end, Drk just kinda became the worst at everything tanks do because they didn't want to tax the other tanks for their utility and sustain anymore.
Is it going to be a dps increase, or will it simply be yet another extra step to accomplish less than what the others do?

Shadowbringer is so boring... like if drk ever needed more 1-2min dmg ogcd with 0 interactions.
Anyone's expecting yet-another rework?

[Lyth]

The dev team are so inconsistent in their balancing that it's hard to see what the underlying balance principle is. WAR is mechanically one of the simplest jobs in the game, yet also offers high survivability and relatively high damage within its role category. That sounds like the very definition of 'bring the job not the player', but yet we don't seem to be doing anything about it.

I don't really see why there's a mitigation upgrade every single expansion. Yoshi-p mentioned during a recent Famitsu interview that he regretted making the game too stress free, with the example being having pits to fall into when playing a platformer game. Forget pitfalls. If this was a platformer, the current iteration of self-healing tanks with a vast array of free mitigation tools would be practically levitating.

[GoatOfWar]

The issue is that they all need to be good at both things.
DPS is king, so unless "dps tank" means doing less than 1% more, then you end up having a meta which isn't good. Unless you prefer "bring the job not the player".

Different rotation style and complexity are fine, but in the end, they all need to bring equivalent things to the table.

I hope DRK gets "The black night at lower level, something like -10% absorb but cost 0 mp (and grants nothing when it breaks) to help a bit at lower level.



Shadowbringer is so boring... like if drk ever needed more 1-2min dmg ogcd with 0 interactions.
Anyone's expecting yet-another rework?

I still think Dark knight is infinitely more engaging than Warrior.
Notice how much damage they put into Warrior's 123 compared to Dark knight, just to make it do the same (Usually even more) damage.
The one OGCD Warrior has does nearly the same damage as Carve and spit on half the cooldown.
This is because there were barely any damage buttons to begin with. It doesn't have any ''interactions'' That Dark knight doesn't.
Neither do the other 2. The only one that you could argue is more engaging is GnB because of gnashing fang.
''Turns fell cleave into super fell cleave and gives you one super duper fell cleave'' is the only thing Warrior does besides 123 fell cleave.

I find Dark knight the most fun to optimise tank in the role.

But besides that, Warrior is a support oriented job.
It needs to have it's dps taxed for all it's support.
Red mage has lower dps than a black mage for a reason, let's apply the same common sense to Warrior.

[Oizen]

The issue is that they all need to be good at both things.
DPS is king, so unless "dps tank" means doing less than 1% more, then you end up having a meta which isn't good. Unless you prefer "bring the job not the player".

Different rotation style and complexity are fine, but in the end, they all need to bring equivalent things to the table.

Well heres my issue with that, if Dark Knight is investing so hard into various different attacks each expansion, to the point where its losing out on utility and mitigations, and WAR is specing more in the otherside, why is it fair that by the end of the expansion they've thrown so much free potency into the same attacks WAR has been using since lv 50 to make them equal? its not like DRK has tools to heal other players more efficiently than actual healers, or the strongest raidwide mit by a mile.

Its not like they balance at all in the other direction, with this philosophy Abyssal drain should have a 12s CD and a 600 cure potency per hit and dark missionary should work on all damage types with and have a direct heal as well. It just seems to me this game is balance almost exclusively for max level week 1 savage clear damage specifically, and everything else is irrelevant. It just seems like WAR gets to bring the best of everything while anyone who isn't WAR is meant to have the bare minimum

Its very difficult to find a niche in tanking right now that isn't summarized by "WAR does it the best"

[GoatOfWar]

Well heres my issue with that, if Dark Knight is investing so hard into various different attacks each expansion, to the point where its losing out on utility and mitigations, and WAR is specing more in the otherside, why is it fair that by the end of the expansion they've thrown so much free potency into the same attacks WAR has been using since lv 50 to make them equal? its not like DRK has tools to heal other players more efficiently than actual healers, or the strongest raidwide mit by a mile.

Its not like they balance at all in the other direction, with this philosophy Abyssal drain should have a 12s CD and a 600 cure potency per hit and dark missionary should work on all damage types with and have a direct heal as well. It just seems to me this game is balance almost exclusively for max level week 1 savage clear damage specifically, and everything else is irrelevant. It just seems like WAR gets to bring the best of everything while anyone who isn't WAR is meant to have the bare minimum

Its very difficult to find a niche in tanking right now that isn't summarized by "WAR does it the best"

Warrior was actually top DPS in week 1.
So i don't think they balance for week 1 anymore, they just give in to streamer driven demand.
I think they're looking to balance for speed kills, which are a super niche and tiny portion of the community.
Seeing as said streamers like to use speedkills as their point of reference.
The result is that everyone who's not playing in hyper optimised speedkill groups should basically default into Warrior because it does everything better.

[Kabooa]

It's gonna be a second invul that's the exact same as PLD's but shorter they will keep holmgang obviously because warrior is weak, they're also going to get old stormblood cover with the 20% built in mitigation (100% serious!)

I actually wouldn't be surprised if warrior just got more then every other tank again though for real lol.

Oh yeah before i forget they will get passage of rocks, it's a 20% AOE mitigation that you don't have to hold in a cone like PLD.

Your next attack can hit allies and gives them a shield equal to twice the damage you deal to them.

[Naomishtola]

Shadowbringer is so boring... like if drk ever needed more 1-2min dmg ogcd with 0 interactions.
Anyone's expecting yet-another rework?

I'd love another DRK rework. Since ShB it's been warrior that facerolls on burst. As you said with shadowbringer, none of the ogcds have any interactions. They could remove darkside as a whole and it wouldn't make a difference at the moment. I'd love if the job had some actual identity like it had in SB (not saying they should revert it, but rather learn from it.)

[GoatOfWar]

I'd love another DRK rework. Since ShB it's been warrior that facerolls on burst. As you said with shadowbringer, none of the ogcds have any interactions. They could remove darkside as a whole and it wouldn't make a difference at the moment. I'd love if the job had some actual identity like it had in SB (not saying they should revert it, but rather learn from it.)

Where exactly is all this interaction on the other tanks?
Warrior pressing a button so that Fell cleave turns into Super fell cleave?
Pressing Inner release for 3 fell cleaves and a super duper fell cleave?
And pressing 123 for a minute after?

Paladin pressing ''not inner release'' to then spam ''Not fell cleave''?

Get real.
Any sort of identity they gave to Dark knight got cannibalised and streamlined because of angry Warrior players.