New Tank Skills

[GoatOfWar]

If anything I just hope they're more ok with GNB DRK existing as the big damage tanks and WAR/PLD existing as the big support tanks.

I'm excited to see what DRK GCDs could be like.

I'm excited for the new GCD's too, but i'm also worried.
At the start of EW, we got Shadowbringer - which made Drk and Gnb the dps tanks.
But in the end, Drk just kinda became the worst at everything tanks do because they didn't want to tax the other tanks for their utility and sustain anymore.
Is it going to be a dps increase, or will it simply be yet another extra step to accomplish less than what the others do?

[Oizen]

I'm excited for the new GCD's too, but i'm also worried.
At the start of EW, we got Shadowbringer - which made Drk and Gnb the dps tanks.
But in the end, Drk just kinda became the worst at everything tanks do because they didn't want to tax the other tanks for their utility and sustain anymore.
Is it going to be a dps increase, or will it simply be yet another extra step to accomplish less than what the others do?

Its a fair concern, and I'm hoping that WAR's new Passage of Arms/Cover esque skill cements the design of WAR and PLD being Big support tanks with GNB and DRK being big damage tanks. They seem to be moving away from heavy damage checks as of anabaseios so I hope that design returns.

If this means the parse meta is locked into DRK/GNB parties, so what? Parsers hate fun anyway.

[Sazuzaki]

Parsers hate fun anyway.

Truer words have never been said.

[Lyth]

If they are actually revising the 120s cooldowns, then perhaps they should actually use the opportunity to rectify the arbitrary advantage that Vengeance has over all the other 120 second recast defensives.

While I'd hope that the DRK actions could represent a new combo, I wonder if one of them could be just the merger of Abyssal Drain and C+S.

Its a fair concern, and I'm hoping that WAR's new Passage of Arms/Cover esque skill cements the design of WAR and PLD being Big support tanks with GNB and DRK being big damage tanks.

This is very optimistic. You're locked into utility and defensive advantages for the expansion. In practice, that means that WARs will greedily gobble up those utility advantages that they know you'll never get revised mid-expansion. You'll then see those same players turn around and complain en masse that the 50 rDPS advantage that you got from the deal is locking them out of week 1 parties on fights that they are unable to clear without Echo anyways. You'll then end up with both less damage and less utility by the first or second tier, just like in every other expansion we've seen to date.

The only role where 'utility vs. damage' ever holds true is on Casters, and that's because it's the producer's home turf.

[GoatOfWar]

If they are actually revising the 120s cooldowns, then perhaps they should actually use the opportunity to rectify the arbitrary advantage that Vengeance has over all the other 120 second recast defensives.

While I'd hope that the DRK actions could represent a new combo, I wonder if one of them could be just the merger of Abyssal Drain and C+S.

This is very optimistic. You're locked into utility and defensive advantages for the expansion. In practice, that means that WARs will greedily gobble up those utility advantages that they know you'll never get revised mid-expansion. You'll then see those same players turn around and complain en masse that the 50 rDPS advantage that you got from the deal is locking them out of week 1 parties on fights that they are unable to clear without Echo anyways. You'll then end up with both less damage and less utility by the first or second tier, just like in every other expansion we've seen to date.

The only role where 'utility vs. damage' ever holds true is on Casters, and that's because it's the producer's home turf.

That's pretty much what i'm expecting, yeah.
Not to mention them perfectly lining up tank mechanics for Holmgang and only putting mechanics into the fights to disavantage the already disadvantaged tanks.
And buffing Warrior because a streamer had his ego hurt over a 100 dps difference.
Going as far as to say ''Warrior is dead'' over the 100 dps difference.
But yeah, if we see a repeat i'll just quit tanking unceremoniously like i quit healing.
As it stands now there already isn't really a reason to have the 3 other tanks besides not wanting to carry an axe.

https://youtu.be/FFK6jDpHDak

[Oizen]

If they are actually revising the 120s cooldowns, then perhaps they should actually use the opportunity to rectify the arbitrary advantage that Vengeance has over all the other 120 second recast defensives.

While I'd hope that the DRK actions could represent a new combo, I wonder if one of them could be just the merger of Abyssal Drain and C+S.

This is very optimistic. You're locked into utility and defensive advantages for the expansion. In practice, that means that WARs will greedily gobble up those utility advantages that they know you'll never get revised mid-expansion. You'll then see those same players turn around and complain en masse that the 50 rDPS advantage that you got from the deal is locking them out of week 1 parties on fights that they are unable to clear without Echo anyways. You'll then end up with both less damage and less utility by the first or second tier, just like in every other expansion we've seen to date.

The only role where 'utility vs. damage' ever holds true is on Casters, and that's because it's the producer's home turf.

Imagine if we just ignored the feedback of balding streamers with questionable interests.

[GoatOfWar]

Imagine if we just ignored the feedback of balding streamers with questionable interests.

Can't have that, because WARRIOR is supposed to be the chosen one. WARRIOR is supposed to be the savior. WARRIOR is supposed to carry the group and save the day!

Oh the other tanks? Yeah they can clear. The game's great! - Streamer who does not buy hair products, probably.

[Absurdity]

Is it going to be a dps increase, or will it simply be yet another extra step to accomplish less than what the others do?

While balance certainly plays a role, my primary concern is how all tanks currently play, not how good their DPS is. Warrior got buffed the entire expansion, but more potency can't fix the fact that it's about as interesting to play as watching paint dry.

I'll gladly take some lower DPS if it means I'm not falling asleep at the keyboard.

[Sylvain]

If anything I just hope they're more ok with GNB DRK existing as the big damage tanks and WAR/PLD existing as the big support tanks.

I'm excited to see what DRK GCDs could be like.

The issue is that they all need to be good at both things.
DPS is king, so unless "dps tank" means doing less than 1% more, then you end up having a meta which isn't good. Unless you prefer "bring the job not the player".

Different rotation style and complexity are fine, but in the end, they all need to bring equivalent things to the table.

I hope DRK gets "The black night at lower level, something like -10% absorb but cost 0 mp (and grants nothing when it breaks) to help a bit at lower level.

I'm excited for the new GCD's too, but i'm also worried.
At the start of EW, we got Shadowbringer - which made Drk and Gnb the dps tanks.
But in the end, Drk just kinda became the worst at everything tanks do because they didn't want to tax the other tanks for their utility and sustain anymore.
Is it going to be a dps increase, or will it simply be yet another extra step to accomplish less than what the others do?

Shadowbringer is so boring... like if drk ever needed more 1-2min dmg ogcd with 0 interactions.
Anyone's expecting yet-another rework?

[GoatOfWar]

The issue is that they all need to be good at both things.
DPS is king, so unless "dps tank" means doing less than 1% more, then you end up having a meta which isn't good. Unless you prefer "bring the job not the player".

Different rotation style and complexity are fine, but in the end, they all need to bring equivalent things to the table.

I hope DRK gets "The black night at lower level, something like -10% absorb but cost 0 mp (and grants nothing when it breaks) to help a bit at lower level.



Shadowbringer is so boring... like if drk ever needed more 1-2min dmg ogcd with 0 interactions.
Anyone's expecting yet-another rework?

I still think Dark knight is infinitely more engaging than Warrior.
Notice how much damage they put into Warrior's 123 compared to Dark knight, just to make it do the same (Usually even more) damage.
The one OGCD Warrior has does nearly the same damage as Carve and spit on half the cooldown.
This is because there were barely any damage buttons to begin with. It doesn't have any ''interactions'' That Dark knight doesn't.
Neither do the other 2. The only one that you could argue is more engaging is GnB because of gnashing fang.
''Turns fell cleave into super fell cleave and gives you one super duper fell cleave'' is the only thing Warrior does besides 123 fell cleave.

I find Dark knight the most fun to optimise tank in the role.

But besides that, Warrior is a support oriented job.
It needs to have it's dps taxed for all it's support.
Red mage has lower dps than a black mage for a reason, let's apply the same common sense to Warrior.