New Tank Skills

[GoatOfWar]

If they are actually revising the 120s cooldowns, then perhaps they should actually use the opportunity to rectify the arbitrary advantage that Vengeance has over all the other 120 second recast defensives.

While I'd hope that the DRK actions could represent a new combo, I wonder if one of them could be just the merger of Abyssal Drain and C+S.

This is very optimistic. You're locked into utility and defensive advantages for the expansion. In practice, that means that WARs will greedily gobble up those utility advantages that they know you'll never get revised mid-expansion. You'll then see those same players turn around and complain en masse that the 50 rDPS advantage that you got from the deal is locking them out of week 1 parties on fights that they are unable to clear without Echo anyways. You'll then end up with both less damage and less utility by the first or second tier, just like in every other expansion we've seen to date.

The only role where 'utility vs. damage' ever holds true is on Casters, and that's because it's the producer's home turf.

That's pretty much what i'm expecting, yeah.
Not to mention them perfectly lining up tank mechanics for Holmgang and only putting mechanics into the fights to disavantage the already disadvantaged tanks.
And buffing Warrior because a streamer had his ego hurt over a 100 dps difference.
Going as far as to say ''Warrior is dead'' over the 100 dps difference.
But yeah, if we see a repeat i'll just quit tanking unceremoniously like i quit healing.
As it stands now there already isn't really a reason to have the 3 other tanks besides not wanting to carry an axe.

https://youtu.be/FFK6jDpHDak

[Oizen]

If they are actually revising the 120s cooldowns, then perhaps they should actually use the opportunity to rectify the arbitrary advantage that Vengeance has over all the other 120 second recast defensives.

While I'd hope that the DRK actions could represent a new combo, I wonder if one of them could be just the merger of Abyssal Drain and C+S.

This is very optimistic. You're locked into utility and defensive advantages for the expansion. In practice, that means that WARs will greedily gobble up those utility advantages that they know you'll never get revised mid-expansion. You'll then see those same players turn around and complain en masse that the 50 rDPS advantage that you got from the deal is locking them out of week 1 parties on fights that they are unable to clear without Echo anyways. You'll then end up with both less damage and less utility by the first or second tier, just like in every other expansion we've seen to date.

The only role where 'utility vs. damage' ever holds true is on Casters, and that's because it's the producer's home turf.

Imagine if we just ignored the feedback of balding streamers with questionable interests.

[Absurdity]

Is it going to be a dps increase, or will it simply be yet another extra step to accomplish less than what the others do?

While balance certainly plays a role, my primary concern is how all tanks currently play, not how good their DPS is. Warrior got buffed the entire expansion, but more potency can't fix the fact that it's about as interesting to play as watching paint dry.

I'll gladly take some lower DPS if it means I'm not falling asleep at the keyboard.

[Sylvain]

If anything I just hope they're more ok with GNB DRK existing as the big damage tanks and WAR/PLD existing as the big support tanks.

I'm excited to see what DRK GCDs could be like.

The issue is that they all need to be good at both things.
DPS is king, so unless "dps tank" means doing less than 1% more, then you end up having a meta which isn't good. Unless you prefer "bring the job not the player".

Different rotation style and complexity are fine, but in the end, they all need to bring equivalent things to the table.

I hope DRK gets "The black night at lower level, something like -10% absorb but cost 0 mp (and grants nothing when it breaks) to help a bit at lower level.

I'm excited for the new GCD's too, but i'm also worried.
At the start of EW, we got Shadowbringer - which made Drk and Gnb the dps tanks.
But in the end, Drk just kinda became the worst at everything tanks do because they didn't want to tax the other tanks for their utility and sustain anymore.
Is it going to be a dps increase, or will it simply be yet another extra step to accomplish less than what the others do?

Shadowbringer is so boring... like if drk ever needed more 1-2min dmg ogcd with 0 interactions.
Anyone's expecting yet-another rework?

[GoatOfWar]

The issue is that they all need to be good at both things.
DPS is king, so unless "dps tank" means doing less than 1% more, then you end up having a meta which isn't good. Unless you prefer "bring the job not the player".

Different rotation style and complexity are fine, but in the end, they all need to bring equivalent things to the table.

I hope DRK gets "The black night at lower level, something like -10% absorb but cost 0 mp (and grants nothing when it breaks) to help a bit at lower level.



Shadowbringer is so boring... like if drk ever needed more 1-2min dmg ogcd with 0 interactions.
Anyone's expecting yet-another rework?

I still think Dark knight is infinitely more engaging than Warrior.
Notice how much damage they put into Warrior's 123 compared to Dark knight, just to make it do the same (Usually even more) damage.
The one OGCD Warrior has does nearly the same damage as Carve and spit on half the cooldown.
This is because there were barely any damage buttons to begin with. It doesn't have any ''interactions'' That Dark knight doesn't.
Neither do the other 2. The only one that you could argue is more engaging is GnB because of gnashing fang.
''Turns fell cleave into super fell cleave and gives you one super duper fell cleave'' is the only thing Warrior does besides 123 fell cleave.

I find Dark knight the most fun to optimise tank in the role.

But besides that, Warrior is a support oriented job.
It needs to have it's dps taxed for all it's support.
Red mage has lower dps than a black mage for a reason, let's apply the same common sense to Warrior.

[Absurdity]

I still think Dark knight is infinitely more engaging than Warrior.
Notice how much damage they put into Warrior's 123 compared to Dark knight, just to make it do the same (Usually even more) damage.
The one OGCD Warrior has does nearly the same damage as Carve and spit on half the cooldown.
This is because there were barely any damage buttons to begin with. It doesn't have any ''interactions'' That Dark knight doesn't.
Neither do the other 2. The only one that you could argue is more engaging is GnB because of gnashing fang.
''Turns fell cleave into super fell cleave and gives you one super duper fell cleave'' is the only thing Warrior does besides 123 fell cleave.

I wouldn't exactly call DrK "infinitely" more engaging.
While Warrior is absolutely the most unengaging and mindless spam job out of all tanks, Dark Knight is 75% spamming your filler and 25% hitting every oGCD in your kit and giving yourself carpal tunnel.

[Oizen]

The issue is that they all need to be good at both things.
DPS is king, so unless "dps tank" means doing less than 1% more, then you end up having a meta which isn't good. Unless you prefer "bring the job not the player".

Different rotation style and complexity are fine, but in the end, they all need to bring equivalent things to the table.

Well heres my issue with that, if Dark Knight is investing so hard into various different attacks each expansion, to the point where its losing out on utility and mitigations, and WAR is specing more in the otherside, why is it fair that by the end of the expansion they've thrown so much free potency into the same attacks WAR has been using since lv 50 to make them equal? its not like DRK has tools to heal other players more efficiently than actual healers, or the strongest raidwide mit by a mile.

Its not like they balance at all in the other direction, with this philosophy Abyssal drain should have a 12s CD and a 600 cure potency per hit and dark missionary should work on all damage types with and have a direct heal as well. It just seems to me this game is balance almost exclusively for max level week 1 savage clear damage specifically, and everything else is irrelevant. It just seems like WAR gets to bring the best of everything while anyone who isn't WAR is meant to have the bare minimum

Its very difficult to find a niche in tanking right now that isn't summarized by "WAR does it the best"

[GoatOfWar]

Well heres my issue with that, if Dark Knight is investing so hard into various different attacks each expansion, to the point where its losing out on utility and mitigations, and WAR is specing more in the otherside, why is it fair that by the end of the expansion they've thrown so much free potency into the same attacks WAR has been using since lv 50 to make them equal? its not like DRK has tools to heal other players more efficiently than actual healers, or the strongest raidwide mit by a mile.

Its not like they balance at all in the other direction, with this philosophy Abyssal drain should have a 12s CD and a 600 cure potency per hit and dark missionary should work on all damage types with and have a direct heal as well. It just seems to me this game is balance almost exclusively for max level week 1 savage clear damage specifically, and everything else is irrelevant. It just seems like WAR gets to bring the best of everything while anyone who isn't WAR is meant to have the bare minimum

Its very difficult to find a niche in tanking right now that isn't summarized by "WAR does it the best"

Warrior was actually top DPS in week 1.
So i don't think they balance for week 1 anymore, they just give in to streamer driven demand.
I think they're looking to balance for speed kills, which are a super niche and tiny portion of the community.
Seeing as said streamers like to use speedkills as their point of reference.
The result is that everyone who's not playing in hyper optimised speedkill groups should basically default into Warrior because it does everything better.

[Naomishtola]

Shadowbringer is so boring... like if drk ever needed more 1-2min dmg ogcd with 0 interactions.
Anyone's expecting yet-another rework?

I'd love another DRK rework. Since ShB it's been warrior that facerolls on burst. As you said with shadowbringer, none of the ogcds have any interactions. They could remove darkside as a whole and it wouldn't make a difference at the moment. I'd love if the job had some actual identity like it had in SB (not saying they should revert it, but rather learn from it.)

[GoatOfWar]

I'd love another DRK rework. Since ShB it's been warrior that facerolls on burst. As you said with shadowbringer, none of the ogcds have any interactions. They could remove darkside as a whole and it wouldn't make a difference at the moment. I'd love if the job had some actual identity like it had in SB (not saying they should revert it, but rather learn from it.)

Where exactly is all this interaction on the other tanks?
Warrior pressing a button so that Fell cleave turns into Super fell cleave?
Pressing Inner release for 3 fell cleaves and a super duper fell cleave?
And pressing 123 for a minute after?

Paladin pressing ''not inner release'' to then spam ''Not fell cleave''?

Get real.
Any sort of identity they gave to Dark knight got cannibalised and streamlined because of angry Warrior players.