Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

[boopadoop]

hello, just wanted to point out that i'm pretty sure the way our characters look in any background/setting preview other than the aetherial sea one is probably not accurate as i don't think they have been updated with the lighting etc, so it probably won't look as bad in actuality, but other things - totes valid, gj, am also not psyched about everyone's lips changing the way they have and they kinda look a lil awkward sometimes?

[noumen0nn]

No need to be sorry, and I really hope the devs are reading.

I feel the same way. If we're really stuck with these alterations to our characters then some of my characters will be gone, and instead of the time I was planning to prepare for Dawntrail on my main character, I feel like I need to spend it all on these secondary characters who are going to be lost to me.

It feels silly to compare it to mourning, but I think my brain is processing it like that nevertheless.

If it’s any consolation, you aren’t alone in comparing how you’re feeling to mourning. I didn’t go to sleep the night I checked out the benchmark because of how upset it made me, and I still don’t feel like I’ve emotionally recovered even 2 days later.

[Embran]

Something that makes me wonder how up-to-date the benchmark actually is is that I didn’t really see any complaints about characters looking the way they do during all of the previews — even stuff like the Pictomancer/Viper trailers, I don’t recall people being like “that looks nothing like miqote face 4 or middie face 2,” etc. — though there were certainly concerns over the lack of viera noses and au ra rings, etc.

It makes part of me believe the benchmark truly is scuffed or an old build or something. I hope they address it in the next live letter, whatever the truth of the matter is.

[Turtledeluxe]

Something that makes me wonder how up-to-date the benchmark actually is is that I didn’t really see any complaints about characters looking the way they do during all of the previews — even stuff like the Pictomancer/Viper trailers, I don’t recall people being like “that looks nothing like miqote face 4 or middie face 2,” etc. — though there were certainly concerns over the lack of viera noses and au ra rings, etc.

It makes part of me believe the benchmark truly is scuffed or an old build or something. I hope they address it in the next live letter, whatever the truth of the matter is.

If the graphical update is not a current build, it should not have been implemented imo. Combined with the fact you can't necessarily replicate things like the character lighting, it seems misleading.

On the other hand, some things like forced makeup, expression changes (primarily by changing lip shapes and angles, eye angles, etc.), removing features that were fine (glossy lips) etc etc are problematic imo. I'm uncertain if those things would be based on old builds or if they are structural.

Either way releasing something old and incomplete is kind of a silly idea for something of this magnitude.

[Shiro-Marusu]

Something that makes me wonder how up-to-date the benchmark actually is is that I didn’t really see any complaints about characters looking the way they do during all of the previews — even stuff like the Pictomancer/Viper trailers, I don’t recall people being like “that looks nothing like miqote face 4 or middie face 2,” etc. — though there were certainly concerns over the lack of viera noses and au ra rings, etc.

It makes part of me believe the benchmark truly is scuffed or an old build or something. I hope they address it in the next live letter, whatever the truth of the matter is.

I feel like there may not have been enough information to go off of. Not all faces/features have the same issues. But if anything, I would guess that perhaps the previews were earlier versions, for images only. Perhaps in some cases they deviated more and more from the original as they tried to (re)adapt it to animations etc. There's probably more going on there than we can even see.

Seeing some of the old models (and I have looked at mine more than any other), not all features are sculpted as 'realistically'. I wonder if they changed things because they worried that keeping the old shapes would look uncanny with the higher graphics... Just speculating at this point, though.

[strdexcon]

Hello! I wanted to give my own input after I saw the changes to Female Roegadyn and felt the same disappointment as a lot of people in this thread. I worry with DT so close to release, not a lot of these issues will be addressed in time (if at all), but I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that something at least does change.

I took a few different shots in the different character lighting to emphasize my issues and made a comparison chart hoping it might help see the issues more clearly.
Like most, I have problems with the current lighting on characters, but I'm not too worried about it cause it seems like a rather high priority issue. If the devs didn't address it by the time DT is released, I'd be baffled. Anyway, here is what I got:
Endwalker (6.5.8) on the left, Dawntrail benchmark (7.0.0) on the right


As I hope people are able to see, there are definitely some changes. The most noticeable ones to me are that of the eye shape, the eyebrows, the nose smudge and the lips. I know a few people have commented on these before, but again, consider it some extra data.

Changes from 6.5.8 to 7.0.0 (benchmark)

• The biggest difference is the eye shape. A lot of WoLs look a lot more tired with big, heavy lids and my WoL is no different. I believe this is due to the upper lash line being quite a bit smaller, allowing for more lid space to open up. I also find the black makeup on her eyes (roegadyn feature) is lighter than it is on the left
• The eyebrows are thinner, resulting in a more down turned and angry look
• The nose smudge, like the makeup, is also lighter and I wonder if it is related to the colours or to the lighting
• The lips are missing their corners, and the lip colour layout makes the upper lip appear thinner and the lower lip appear larger

As an aside, it could be just the lighting or the shape of the eyes, but it seems to me like the nose shape is slightly different? I included it in my comparison chart below but I'm not 100% if it's a valid issue.

Here is my side by side of the two faces below, as well as a couple overlays for better comparison. If you can't read the text, it's basically the same list as above. Hope this helps somebody!


EDIT: if anyone, for whatever reason, wanted the comparison image at a higher res, you can grab it from https://imgur.com/a/1yHijca

[GodModule]

Not a fan of how it makes his eyes softer, but I'm overall happy with the update

[Zaniel]

What all these threads are telling me is that a goodly proportion of the population have prosopagnosia. Some of the arguments about the faces has me wondering "how can you not see the blatantly obvious differences?"

[TheDruidOcelot]

What all these threads are telling me is that a goodly proportion of the population have prosopagnosia. Some of the arguments about the faces has me wondering "how can you not see the blatantly obvious differences?"

that's the funny (not ha ha funny, more like. mmmm funny) thing to me. i HAVE prosopagnosia, but it doesn't really affect highly stylized art styles (for me, different people have different severity) ESPECIALLY when you isolate individual facial features on a drawing or 3d model. like. once its on its own its so obvious. I HAVE To assume its some sort of just willful attitude to make people feel like theres nothing they can do because people are i guess, annoyed that people aren't happy with what looks to be a slapdash, rushed job done on too short of a timeframe to do what was promised.

[MrMordio]

I'm curious and perhaps you could enlighten me, but where is the line drawn between 'make them better' and 'keep them the same'? Where is the limit? At what point are they no longer the same character?

Ultimately, the changes appear to have been made in order to make the characters look more real - the same characters, just made to look more realistic. But all of these realistic features have been pointed out by different players to be features they dislike and that have to be reverted:

Skin texture and pores? - presumably to give a more tangible appearance, rather than cartoon-ish. A matter complained about by some.

Removal of a permanent eye glint and instead adding light reflection based on environment? - again, more in keeping with real effects of environment and lighting. But again, complained about by some as leaving their characters 'empty and soul-less'.

Extra detail to facial structure - dimples being one example. Look in the mirror. Smile. You'll see dimples! Some may be strong, others more subtle, but they'll be there. Yet some complain this goes too far and prefer to return to the more solid, doll-like appearance.

While there are more, I would think each of these would be perfectly understandable ways of trying to make the characters 'better' while still being the same character. Yet each of these have been complained about. So I ask, where is the limit? Exactly what would you be looking for?

An excellent question. I'll bite.

By "better," I mean higher resolution textures, more polygons, and more sophisticated lighting effects, all of which are intended to reduce the appearance of jagged edges and pixely shadows. That can be done without making arbitrary, uncalled-for character design changes, such as changing the shape of a character's eyes, shortening fangs, completely altering facial expressions, or changing the shape of the lips, nose, or mouth.