Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[IDontPetLalas]

You might not agree with it but unfortunately that is the reality. Whether it is by the time available to someone, resources available, or physical disability, not everyone who participates in pvp is going to be able to match others. That's why so many PVP games have things that are like random handicaps. The only way someone can say what I say has no weight is that they literally have no knowledge of the outside world.

In regards specifically to Frontlines as a duty finder based PvP option, it has to be able to be appealing to run for just about anyone, otherwise it can't be a duty finder option. So unless they are going to suddenly strip all pvp from Duty Finder and find some magical way to get 72 people to directly queue for Frontlines, they got to have the game throw a lot of wrenches so that directly queued parties are on parity with random people who just don't know what they are doing. At least up to the point that the majority of people who are not queuing as a group are always ending up 3rd or 2nd place. Because as it is right now without DF the entire thing is dead and lacks any way to really get on its feet, not to mention utterly fails as a casual form of PvP that can let those who are not deeply interested in true FFXIV PvP get a crack at the rewards.

I believe you misunderstood my reply, I may have phrased it poorly. I'm saying that your concept of "fairness" doesn't exist, in either PvP nor in PvE, due to the factors I mentioned, and more. It's not "tab-target" issue, it's not a FL specific issue- I happen to agree with that- but even if it was an e-sports system I'm saying that we don't start off on an equal basis due to those factors, which may be outside of the game's control.

In addition, "In regards specifically to Frontlines as a duty finder based PvP option, it has to be able to be appealing to run for just about anyone, otherwise it can't be a duty finder option. "- no, it has to be available to enough people so that the queues are acceptable. That's quite different.

You may find, in your opinion the "the mode is dead" . I wouldn't say the mode is dead, and while I have played PvP games that had direct queues for 48 or for players, I doubt it would work here. We also don't have large pre-made parties mixed random parties and these hypothetical "wrenches" of yours are handled in some other games by adjusting the contribution for pre-made party members (i.e. splitting), so that might be applicable here.

Finally, I don't know, my personal view is that people should work for rewards. In some cases rewards my take quite a while to achieve, however if it's something I enjoy doing, the time isn't an issue. If however it isn't enjoyable- it seems interminable. That may well apply to some people who don't like PvP and who want rewards. So I could understand that some of them might find that it takes an extremely long time, however while they are there they are still obtaining rewards for their time.

[Colt47]

I believe you misunderstood my reply, I may have phrased it poorly. I'm saying that your concept of "fairness" doesn't exist, in either PvP nor in PvE, due to the factors I mentioned, and more. It's not "tab-target" issue, it's not a FL specific issue- I happen to agree with that- but even if it was an e-sports system I'm saying that we don't start off on an equal basis due to those factors, which may be outside of the game's control.

In addition, "In regards specifically to Frontlines as a duty finder based PvP option, it has to be able to be appealing to run for just about anyone, otherwise it can't be a duty finder option. "- no, it has to be available to enough people so that the queues are acceptable. That's quite different.

You may find, in your opinion the "the mode is dead" . I wouldn't say the mode is dead, and while I have played PvP games that had direct queues for 48 or for players, I doubt it would work here. We also don't have large pre-made parties mixed random parties and these hypothetical "wrenches" of yours are handled in some other games by adjusting the contribution for pre-made party members (i.e. splitting), so that might be applicable here.

Finally, I don't know, my personal view is that people should work for rewards. In some cases rewards my take quite a while to achieve, however if it's something I enjoy doing, the time isn't an issue. If however it isn't enjoyable- it seems interminable. That may well apply to some people who don't like PvP and who want rewards. So I could understand that some of them might find that it takes an extremely long time, however while they are there they are still obtaining rewards for their time.

Oh okay so we basically agree there is no fairness, since that is exactly what I stated and eluded to in the post that you originally replied to.

[Mawlzy]

Oh okay so we basically agree there is no fairness, since that is exactly what I stated and eluded to in the post that you originally replied to.

Really not following your arguments at all here. Frontlines includes RNG, both in terms of spawns and team assignment. Sometimes your team-mates won't be very good. Sometimes your team will play the best only to lose to a bad late spawn. All this is perfectly fair. The only area in which one might argue there is a lack of fairness is when that randomness is subverted by premades and Q-synching.

And while there's a general sentiment here that Frontlines has problems, in terms of participation it is incredibly successful. Sub-5min queues for at least 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. (Aether. I understand that isn't universal.)

[Colt47]

Really not following your arguments at all here. Frontlines includes RNG, both in terms of spawns and team assignment. Sometimes your team-mates won't be very good. Sometimes your team will play the best only to lose to a bad late spawn. All this is perfectly fair. The only area in which one might argue there is a lack of fairness is when that randomness is subverted by premades and Q-synching.

And while there's a general sentiment here that Frontlines has problems, in terms of participation it is incredibly successful. Sub-5min queues for at least 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. (Aether. I understand that isn't universal.)

What you aren't getting is that developers understand that fairness doesn't exist and that is why they put in things like the sandtrap and other obstacles in CC. It is the same thing as what they do in Call of Duty with the kill streaks. Technically, the latter does a much better job thanks to fast time to kill plus the kill streaks, but it evens the odds as the skill floor is much higher. It also tends to make the games less repetitious. When Time to Kill increases then it becomes more skill intensive since there is more time to do counter play.

[Mawlzy]

What you aren't getting is that developers understand that fairness doesn't exist and that is why they put in things like the sandtrap and other obstacles in CC. It is the same thing as what they do in Call of Duty with the kill streaks. Technically, the latter does a much better job thanks to fast time to kill plus the kill streaks, but it evens the odds as the skill floor is much higher. It also tends to make the games less repetitious. When Time to Kill increases then it becomes more skill intensive since there is more time to do counter play.

I suspect you're using a non-standard meaning of the word "fairness."

[Colt47]

I suspect you're using a non-standard meaning of the word "fairness."

It is in reference to the players own situation in life as not everyone who is playing is in the same space of either skill nor capability.

[Mawlzy]

It is in reference to the players own situation in life as not everyone who is playing is in the same space of either skill nor capability.

Right. I've never used "fairness" to mean skill differences or a skill cap arising from personal limitations. And neither has anyone else I know. I am partially sighted. I don't think that makes video games unfair.