Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Archeron]

Apparently yall took that to mean I'd hunt you down or something, sorry about that! I mean to say that if what Mawlzy says is true and there are more premades and what Archeron says is true that they skip each other. Then you won't be able to have a match without a premade in it. Premades continue to encourage more premades until you can't actually dodge them in que. Further past that point, everyone knows how to play against and with a premade thus everything becomes a premade. I'm currently helping train up more commanders to, so hopefully that will follow a similar route.

I'm glad you decided to que more Archeron! If you are good at leading your team then that'd be great for the community! (seems I'm making a change already aren't I?) If you need any discord invites feel free to ping me, and you have the link to my guide, feel free to use the macros in there. As for when "My" premade ques... I guess never since I don't have some static group? It feels a little disingenuous to ask what times I play when you hide behind an alt to "avoid getting harassed." You seem a little incapable of making any points or arguments without insulting people, and that might be leading you into a cycle of toxicity.

Regardless, If it was a wager between SE making changes that fixed FL and the community becoming better players; I'd put my money on the community being better first.

I show as much respect as is given to me. If you're going to throw insults, and get passive aggressive with me, expect me to return the heat. I find that rather ironic comment coming from you, as you continue to admonish me for "hiding behind an alt" in the same breath, despite my legitimate concerns and reasons behind using an alt I don't really play on anymore. I don't want my FC members being harassed by unhinged forum members. Unless you have a legitimate reason behind wanting such information about my characters (Which I wouldn't entrust to you, as I see us on less than cordial terms.) its none of your business.

Your approach of "Lets make more premades so people will have to learn to fight them, or play with them." is not the solution. Like I have said in many threads, with the risk of sound like a broken record the core of frontlines PvP is flawed, and broken. There is nothing that can fix it beyond MAJOR overhaul to the game mode. The limiting of premade parties to two players, addition of vulnerability to Battle high, PvP hall of the novice, addition of more maps with a larger variety of objectives to score points, and rebalancing of jobs for large scale combat is just a few examples of what would have to happen to make the game mode more appealing to those people.

You may reach maybe 5% of the pvp frontline community if we're being generous. That 5% typically already knows what they're doing, and they don't need much, if any help in being more effective players. It's the PvE players that need to be given encouragement to give PvP a shot, and they won't when they get curb stomped repeatedly by premades who exist to farm kills off of them for easy wins. It frustrates them, and leaves a negative impression in their mind. Don't take my word for it. Go join novice network, and ask the players there for their general opinion of PvP. It is rarely positive. Without addressing what makes the mode bad for the majority of players, nothing will change.

You know, I would agree that if a pre-made ( a competent one) in not in your alliance, it is more difficult to win, however some people seem to basically throw in the towel as soon as they encounter one.

The term "avoid", seems inaccurate to me, since some of them remain in the match but basically give up - "avoiding" would meaning leaving or avoiding FL, which they don't seem to do - but, they don't seem to want to improve, either. So I wonder why they queue, since how much fun can that be for them- and that definitely doesn't make things fun for some other people in their alliance.

I call it avoid, because premades are a major reason why people won't requeue for PvP. Especially if you're trying to farm wins, your odds of winning crater off into nothing, and most people don't find being farmed for someone elses easy wins enjoyable.

Its the people who throw in the towel, who I find have the most potential to coordinate, and score wins against the premades. A little coordination, or a plan as simple as "Lets make the premade lose by all means neccessary" is often enough to get some coordination going, and ensure the premade team gets pinched, and punished for every move they make, for the entire duration of the match. Most of my wins against premades happen on teams with people openly whining in Alliance chat about their presence.

[Mawlzy]

Its the people who throw in the towel, who I find have the most potential to coordinate, and score wins against the premades. A little coordination, or a plan as simple as "Lets make the premade lose by all means neccessary" is often enough to get some coordination going, and ensure the premade team gets pinched, and punished for every move they make, for the entire duration of the match. Most of my wins against premades happen on teams with people openly whining in Alliance chat about their presence.

I don't contribute much to chat unless nobody else is providing input, in which case I'll bung in a compass direction when the new S-rank has apparently been overlooked. But I will make the exception pre-match when people are complaining about premades. I agree it can be successful. Why? Because most solo players regard premades as a legal cheat, and are primed to do something about it.

One particularly encouraging approach, once the premade has been identified, is to suggest we lay off the opposing team without the premade. On a good day, that team notices and understands the plan. Smush the premade team to limit their points, then duke it out with each other for the win.

Ah... small pleasures.

[Archeron]

I don't contribute much to chat unless nobody else is providing input, in which case I'll bung in a compass direction when the new S-rank has apparently been overlooked. But I will make the exception pre-match when people are complaining about premades. I agree it can be successful. Why? Because most solo players regard premades as a legal cheat, and are primed to do something about it.

One particularly encouraging approach, once the premade has been identified, is to suggest we lay off the opposing team without the premade. On a good day, that team notices and understands the plan. Smush the premade team to limit their points, then duke it out with each other for the win.

Ah... small pleasures.

"Unga Bunga smash (Premade Grand company here)" is a personal favorite of mine with a team of defeatists. Even the rouletters join in on such a simple, evil plan. Decent enough commanders can probably outplay it, but it at least throws a wrench at their odds of winning when half or more of their team is bogged down, and kept under constant assault. Usually works best on Seal Rock. With Onsal Hakair its mostly just a sabotage play, doesn't make it any less enjoyable to me though.

[IDontPetLalas]

I don't contribute much to chat unless nobody else is providing input, in which case I'll bung in a compass direction when the new S-rank has apparently been overlooked. But I will make the exception pre-match when people are complaining about premades. I agree it can be successful. Why? Because most solo players regard premades as a legal cheat, and are primed to do something about it.

One particularly encouraging approach, once the premade has been identified, is to suggest we lay off the opposing team without the premade. On a good day, that team notices and understands the plan. Smush the premade team to limit their points, then duke it out with each other for the win.

Ah... small pleasures.

There are definitely people who will complain about pre-mades. However extending this to a claim that "most" solo players regard this as "legal cheating" is not only basis but an oxymoron.

Pre-mades are allowed, you just admitted that it can be enjoyable to beat them, and I agree completely with that.

[Mawlzy]

There are definitely people who will complain about pre-mades. However extending this to a claim that "most" solo players regard this as "legal cheating" is not only basis but an oxymoron.

Pre-mades are allowed, you just admitted that it can be enjoyable to beat them, and I agree completely with that.

As in the past, you have fairly called me out on my hyperbole. Thank you. I suspect this happens because I tend to drop in here after the latest negative experience on FL.

What I was trying to express is that a lot of the defeatism and non-engagement by causal players is, IMO, being driven by the fact many such players regard mixed queues as unfair. I base this on chat in Aether FL matches. One can sometimes exploit this sense of injustice to rally the troops. And while it can indeed be fun, it seems a rather roundabout way of generating interesting matches when other structural solutions are available.