Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Aravell]

Very much so. And this does happen on NA sometimes in the absence of premades. This is why we've floated everything from matchmaking algorithms to reducing rewards. But I'd suggest it's precisely those battles where there is little commanding where people are compelled to look at the map and figure out how the mode works. You learn absolutely nothing by racing around after a "D" with a 3-2-1 countdown banging in your shell-like.

While I understand your point of giving people the free space to learn, I do think a guiding hand is necessary at times.

If you give a new PvP player total freedom to learn with no guiding hand, they may come to very wrong conclusions.

Like they might learn "Let them fight and we take objectives" instead of "Fight often as allowed to curb enemy battle high while building your own", or they might learn "1st place is too strong, we should pick off the other team and secure 2nd place" instead of "1st place is too strong, we need to pincer 1st place when they go in to attack the other team".

While learning on your own is fine, I do think people serious about playing the mode should probably seek out some guides or guidance from a veteran so they don't fall into the very common noob traps.

[Mawlzy]

While I understand your point of giving people the free space to learn, I do think a guiding hand is necessary at times.

If you give a new PvP player total freedom to learn with no guiding hand, they may come to very wrong conclusions.

Like they might learn "Let them fight and we take objectives" instead of "Fight often as allowed to curb enemy battle high while building your own", or they might learn "1st place is too strong, we should pick off the other team and secure 2nd place" instead of "1st place is too strong, we need to pincer 1st place when they go in to attack the other team".

While learning on your own is fine, I do think people serious about playing the mode should probably seek out some guides or guidance from a veteran so they don't fall into the very common noob traps.

Oh I think guides have an important place in any game. In fact one of the things that surprises me about 14 is that, given the massive player base, there's a surprising absence of YT content for PvP. Try searching, for example, for a CC beginner's guide and about all you get is something from MrHappy that came out just after release.

I think people who are serious about the mode will always seek out advice. When I got into FL, my primary concern was that my initial incompetence was going to negatively impact my team, so I watched anything tagged as a FL beginner's guide. In fact it's probably Wesk's video that generated my preference for not contesting Onsal mid unless it's the only node up.

Some of the general principles outlined in Olivia's guide are useful in this regard.

[Crusader1]

The cheaters are beyond disgusting and its so obvious. It would require a single dev to play a few matches per day and spot the cheaters and take action immediately. After a few bans the cheating would drop way off instantly. One easy to spot and prime example of cheating is the players of DK's who use a program to flawlessly perform their lb without fail to survive a ninja lb that would have killed them. The DK lb was not designed as a free lb survive skill. This is obvious exploitation of the skill using a program as i play nin ja and see the same DK players perform this miraculous lb initiation over and over in every match. It is obviously a program, no human is even remotely that perfect or fast at pressing their lb to avoid death from a ninja lb like they do. Please have a dev familiar with front lines play and see these players cheating and ban them immediately. I am beyond disgusted that i pay a sub for a game that allows such blatant cheating to happen every day every match.

[Crusader1]

The amount of cheating in PVP is ridiculous. Will SE please have a dev play frontlines and ban the OBVIOUS cheaters. It would only take a few bans to make the cheaters scurry away like the cockroaches they are. One obvious cheat is the DK players using a program that activates their lb to survive a ninja assassination or monk lb. I play ninja and monk and i have seen these cheater DK's perform this miraculous lb timing over and over and over in a match and every match all night. This is obvious program cheat usage and a DEV playing a few matches could spot this easily and ban the offender on the spot. A few bans is all it would take to make the coward cheaters run.

[Roguewaves]

The amount of cheating in PVP is ridiculous. Will SE please have a dev play frontlines and ban the OBVIOUS cheaters. It would only take a few bans to make the cheaters scurry away like the cockroaches they are. One obvious cheat is the DK players using a program that activates their lb to survive a ninja assassination or monk lb. I play ninja and monk and i have seen these cheater DK's perform this miraculous lb timing over and over and over in a match and every match all night. This is obvious program cheat usage and a DEV playing a few matches could spot this easily and ban the offender on the spot. A few bans is all it would take to make the coward cheaters run.

Oh my dear, Drake.... it's really troubling that you genuinely have been spewing this for months in various discords and many in-game FL matches. You're actually famous across all NA DCs for being so deranged. Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that some players have better ping, are more familiar with their skills, have better map awareness, and have learned to play preemptively. If I see a DRK running towards my group I immediately break away or counterattack if I'm on RPR/MNK, if I see a NIN running towards me and I'm near 50% I obviously know he wants to LB so I spam recups, if I see a DNC running in I burst them down in the hopes of killing them during their LB animation...do all these scenarios mean I have a program telling me when to press a button? No. It's basic pvp sense that you naturally develop after playing the game for a bit.

Also you're example of a DRK LB'ing when being NIN LB'd....there's a milisecond delay before NIN's LB engages, that gives a player enough time to press their DRK LB if it's up. It's not cheating, I can do it and I'm on console, there's literally no way I can install 3rd party add-ons on my game.

Time to wake up Drake and realize there's just TONS of players that are above your skill level. And this is coming from a solo player, I don't play with a team and I rainbow all jobs.

[KageTokage]

Oh my dear, Drake.... it's really troubling that you genuinely have been spewing this for months in various discords and many in-game FL matches. You're actually famous across all NA DCs for being so deranged. Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that some players have better ping, are more familiar with their skills, have better map awareness, and have learned to play preemptively. If I see a DRK running towards my group I immediately break away or counterattack if I'm on RPR/MNK, if I see a NIN running towards me and I'm near 50% I obviously know he wants to LB so I spam recups, if I see a DNC running in I burst them down in the hopes of killing them during their LB animation...do all these scenarios mean I have a program telling me when to press a button? No. It's basic pvp sense that you naturally develop after playing the game for a bit.

Also you're example of a DRK LB'ing when being NIN LB'd....there's a milisecond delay before NIN's LB engages, that gives a player enough time to press their DRK LB if it's up. It's not cheating, I can do it and I'm on console, there's literally no way I can install 3rd party add-ons on my game.

Time to wake up Drake and realize there's just TONS of players that are above your skill level. And this is coming from a solo player, I don't play with a team and I rainbow all jobs.

Cursory research into the subject would reveal that there is, in fact a readily available plug-in/addon that can automate several aspects of PvP, including usage of survival cooldowns. How prevalent its usage is can't be said, but its mere existence does make me suspicious of a lot of things that have happened in my matches.

I can't see how the devs could actually do anything to counter/prevent its usage, though.

[Mawlzy]

Cursory research into the subject would reveal that there is, in fact a readily available plug-in/addon that can automate several aspects of PvP, including usage of survival cooldowns. How prevalent its usage is can't be said, but its mere existence does make me suspicious of a lot of things that have happened in my matches.

I can't see how the devs could actually do anything to counter/prevent its usage, though.

Online poker attempts to address the problem by frankly invasive means. Like if you have a range-vs-range equity calculator open while you're playing, it'll detect it and boot you from the game. Repeated offenses can lead to a ban and forfeiture of funds. I believe SQEX has said they will not do this, hence the rather peculiar situation of "mods are strictly against ToS, so please don't mention that you're using them."

Unfortunately in poker, it's a typical gamekeeper-poacher arms race where the dedicated cheaters just get better at circumventing the countermeasures.

Those videos I linked to indicate that anyone who wants to cheat can do so (please note I didn't include any links to the cheating tools themselves), so yes they are out there and not hard to find. I think we just have to rely on the hope that most players value their accounts too much to try such shenanigans.

[Mawlzy]

I think this portion of the thread may make more sense if the "reply with quote" option was employed, but I'm far from certain.

[OliviaLugria]

awe, did i strike a nerve? awe.

Maybe in annoyance >.>