My feedback on the method of obtaining relics in Endwalker

[TaleraRistain]

Considering Bozja is still the most interacted with content that’s not on a roulette i think saying they were a failure is about as wrong as possible

Whether you think this is because of genuine enjoyment or simply “because of the relics” it shows that a zone with relics gets engagement rivalling roulette content, how is that anything but a resounding victory for bozja’s content design

How is being propped up by a highly desired reward that prior to SB was its own separate questline a resounding victory for Bozja's content design? If it can't stand on its own without the relic tied to it, then how is it any better than this expansion's Variant and Criterion?

[Supersnow845]

How is being propped up by a highly desired reward that prior to SB was its own separate questline a resounding victory for Bozja's content design? If it can't stand on its own without the relic tied to it, then how is it any better than this expansion's Variant and Criterion?

Because having the relic included is contributing to its success. The fact that it’s not like current variant shows that tying relics to it is the right design because it gives the content massive engagement

I’m not saying bozja’s actual design (as in content structure) is the success I’m saying its reward structure is the success

People on here are both saying “bozja is dead” then also asking them to rip one of bozja’s biggest rewards out of its reward structure and acting like that is a good plan

[TaleraRistain]

Because having the relic included is contributing to its success. The fact that it’s not like current variant shows that tying relics to it is the right design because it gives the content massive engagement

I’m not saying bozja’s actual design (as in content structure) is the success I’m saying its reward structure is the success

People on here are both saying “bozja is dead” then also asking them to rip one of bozja’s biggest rewards out of its reward structure and acting like that is a good plan

It's not a reward exclusive to Bozja, though. The relic was only tied to exploratory zones in later expansions. It was originally its own questline and reward for that questline. So in a sense that reward is kind of borrowed glory.

If what you're saying is that Bozja's content sucks so badly that it needs a relic, then should they really make more of it? Shouldn't they aim at making content that is going to be fun and engaging and that players want to do and keep going back into, instead of having players push themselves through it and then abandon it when they get what they want so players after them have a hard time?

I bet people would constantly be in Variant if they propped it up with a relic in the same way.

[Supersnow845]

It's not a reward exclusive to Bozja, though. The relic was only tied to exploratory zones in later expansions. It was originally its own questline and reward for that questline. So in a sense that reward is kind of borrowed glory.

If what you're saying is that Bozja's content sucks so badly that it needs a relic, then should they really make more of it? Shouldn't they aim at making content that is going to be fun and engaging and that players want to do and keep going back into, instead of having players push themselves through it and then abandon it when they get what they want so players after them have a hard time?

I bet people would constantly be in Variant if they propped it up with a relic in the same way.

Again your personal enjoyment of the content is irrelevant to this discussion, whether you think Bozja is bad or Bozja is good or variant is bad or variant is good it doesn’t change the stats, Bozja had high retention, variant has garbage retention; Bozja is the second grindiest core combat content in the game and it has interaction that exceed some roulette content

By every measure Bozja was an overwhelming success, part of that can be contributed to the inclusion of the relic, if they can generate that level of interaction via what Bozja already has plus the relic then what’s their incentive not to, yes they could have tied the relic to variant, they probably should have, variant isn’t bad content it’s just this “people will play for the sake of it if the content is fun” doesn’t exist in this game, people will only play when given rewards, and that’s why criterion failed

[Saraide]

Again your personal enjoyment of the content is irrelevant to this discussion, whether you think Bozja is bad or Bozja is good or variant is bad or variant is good it doesn’t change the stats, Bozja had high retention, variant has garbage retention; Bozja is the second grindiest core combat content in the game and it has interaction that exceed some roulette content

By every measure Bozja was an overwhelming success, part of that can be contributed to the inclusion of the relic, if they can generate that level of interaction via what Bozja already has plus the relic then what’s their incentive not to, yes they could have tied the relic to variant, they probably should have, variant isn’t bad content it’s just this “people will play for the sake of it if the content is fun” doesn’t exist in this game, people will only play when given rewards, and that’s why criterion failed

(bolded by me)
A scathing indictment on the playerbase and honestly the genre as a whole but it's not far off. This is why the genre is trash.

[strawberrycake]

(bolded by me)
A scathing indictment on the playerbase and honestly the genre as a whole but it's not far off. This is why the genre is trash.

As much as people don't like the reality of it, you're not gonna work if you don;t get paid. You're not gonna waste time if it has no results, be it pleasure or relaxation, that's a reward for your time wasted. Genre isn't trash because it rewards time. It;s trash because a bunch of people who don;t wanna work for anything came into the genre when there's literally other genres that they can play that reward them for simply existing and turning on the game.

So many other MMOs have blended Social interaction with rewards and grinds and people remember them fondly, we're having this issue in XIV now because so many people hear casual and forget they have to play the game to get something. Nothing should be handed to you for free, nothing should be unearned. Nothing would matter if given away for free.

Many of us would rather create memories and make friends and push content to enjoy our subs the most and want to do explore and complete as much engaging content as possible. If the Genre is Trash because we want rewards for our efforts, then dang working for anything in life is must suck for a lot of people.