My feedback on the method of obtaining relics in Endwalker

[Saraide]

You definition of success is coloured by what you enjoy, not what makes square more money and drives more interest in their content which is what I’m arguing

Then this definition of success via engagement is useless to us because we arent shareholders.

[Striker44]

The current relic has had more completion but less overall engagement in collective 14 because it can be completed in less time and content not tied to it died way too fast like VC

I'd respond with a counter to this - even though each individual relic can be completed in less time, how many relics are people completing? I'll give myself as an example - I only ever progressed one ARR relic through the Atma phase, and I never completed even a single ShB relic because I'm not as much a fan of the exploratory zone style. Meanwhile, I'll be fully completing 6 relics in EW (PLD, SCH, WHM, RDM, DRG, and BRD). I'm running noticeably more roulettes, and I'm still doing hunt trains long past the point I generally stopped in ShB. I complete each individual relic quicker, but my overall engagement is significantly higher because I'm completing so many more of them in the end.

[Supersnow845]

Then this definition of success via engagement is useless to us because we arent shareholders.

Correct; but it is the definition that square enix is likely to use, which has always been my point, I’ve never argued it’s a good system on squares part, have I not explained this clearly because I feel like I’ve explained this same point like 12 times at this point

I'd respond with a counter to this - even though each individual relic can be completed in less time, how many relics are people completing? I'll give myself as an example - I only ever progressed one ARR relic through the Atma phase, and I never completed even a single ShB relic because I'm not as much a fan of the exploratory zone style. Meanwhile, I'll be fully completing 6 relics in EW (PLD, SCH, WHM, RDM, DRG, and BRD). I'm running noticeably more roulettes, and I'm still doing hunt trains long past the point I generally stopped in ShB. I complete each individual relic quicker, but my overall engagement is significantly higher because I'm completing so many more of them in the end.

That’s a fair point, completion of multiple EW relics is likely to be higher than previous relics so it could be argued that overall the benefit to the game is positive

I’m not trying to argue that the relics must be tied to the exploratory content zones, doing 15 easy relics may actually lead to more benefit than doing 3 hard relics even if it makes the zone suffer

[strawberrycake]

Correct; but it is the definition that square enix is likely to use, which has always been my point, I’ve never argued it’s a good system on squares part, have I not explained this clearly because I feel like I’ve explained this same point like 12 times at this point



That’s a fair point, completion of multiple EW relics is likely to be higher than previous relics so it could be argued that overall the benefit to the game is positive

It's because people are dense and self centered and forget that the company has to account for engagement metrics. Seeing beyond themselves is hard.

[Mithron]

Correct; but it is the definition that square enix is likely to use, which has always been my point, I’ve never argued it’s a good system on squares part, have I not explained this clearly because I feel like I’ve explained this same point like 12 times at this point

No, you're completely missing the point. The exploratory zones aren't successful, the relic is successful. People want the relic. Most don't want to do the exploratory zones. So slap the relic in Diadem and by your logic it automatically becomes successful, irregardless of the content.

If we're talking shareholder logic, they don't care at all about player retention. All they want is a high turn over rate of new players who pay a high amount of extras for a short time then move on quickly, especially if you have a discounted sub from 1.0. We could go even deeper into the political aspect that 14's been driven to since SHB, furthered in EW and complete in DT that the shareholders are pushing.

[Supersnow845]

No, you're completely missing the point. The exploratory zones aren't successful, the relic is successful. People want the relic. Most don't want to do the exploratory zones. So slap the relic in Diadem and by your logic it automatically becomes successful, irregardless of the content.

If we're talking shareholder logic, they don't care at all about player retention. All they want is a high turn over rate of new players who pay a high amount of extras for a short time then move on quickly, especially if you have a discounted sub from 1.0. We could go even deeper into the political aspect that 14's been driven to since SHB, furthered in EW and complete in DT that the shareholders are pushing.

You just said I missed the point then explained my exact point back to me

Yes the relic helps drive content in exploratory content zones and that helps leads to their super high retention, ergo tying a relic to something is a great way to drive engagement for it, Bozja proves this, VC proves the reverse, that’s literally the entire point I’m making

Your personal opinion that it shouldn’t be this way because you don’t like Bozja is totally irrelevant to that argument

[Grimr]

I do not want a return to exploration relics. Eureka was long slog. 4 zones too many. Bozja is the lesser of two evil with only 2 zones. That is 2 exploration relics need something different. I recently went back to eureka and bojza. eureka had about 20 players on avg bozja had about 50 so more going on for it. 3.0 relics are pretty good 2.0 is too many books and for eureka well it is just harder to do with less people. I would like something down with 5.0 relic to speed it up.

I wish the ew relic was not currency based. It just makes it seems you had less dev time and you just put that in.

[Mithron]

You just said I missed the point then explained my exact point back to me

Yes the relic helps drive content in exploratory content zones and that helps leads to their super high retention, ergo tying a relic to something is a great way to drive engagement for it, Bozja proves this, VC proves the reverse, that’s literally the entire point I’m making

Your personal opinion that it shouldn’t be this way because you don’t like Bozja is totally irrelevant to that argument

No, your point is that Bozja is successful and all relics should be kept in exploratory content because it was successful but your definition.

Your personal opinion that it should be this way because you like Bozja is totally irrelevant to that argument.

[Supersnow845]

No, your point is that Bozja is successful and all relics should be kept in exploratory content because it was successful but your definition.

Your personal opinion that it should be this way because you like Bozja is totally irrelevant to that argument.

I’ve explained my point at least 10 times, if you still aren’t getting it I don’t know what to tell you, I have even explicitly said if square’s “big content piece” for DT is not field content they should tie the relic to that content

Bozja is a big content piece that succeeded due to a relic, the fact it’s field content means nothing

[Mimilu]

I had an idea for this, why not use the open world as the Eureka/Bozja fill-in?
The first step could work like this:
• Instead of Tomestones, the turn-in items cost Bicolor Gemstones (from FATEs).
• Each of the EW areas has its own turn-in item, six total. They will appear in the Bicolor Gemstone vendors in that area once you unlock the Relic quest.
• You need a combination of 3 turn-in items that changes depending on what weapon you are aiming for.
• To spice things up, we'll bring in multiple Critical Engagements (FATEs but with limited members) to each area as well with Combatant's Priority Deployment (i.e. those who help spawn the Critical Engagement get spawn in priority).
• They could also add Manderville Lockboxes/Caches that you can earn from EW FATEs once you unlocked the relic quest.

With this people would get their open world content, open world FATEs will have a purpose (outside of the rare, big FATEs that give you turn-ins for glam items), it won't be too hard or different from current gameplay, and it won't be as annoying as ARR's relic FATE grinding. *(*´∀｀*)☆