My feedback on the method of obtaining relics in Endwalker

[TaleraRistain]

Considering Bozja is still the most interacted with content that’s not on a roulette i think saying they were a failure is about as wrong as possible

Whether you think this is because of genuine enjoyment or simply “because of the relics” it shows that a zone with relics gets engagement rivalling roulette content, how is that anything but a resounding victory for bozja’s content design

How is being propped up by a highly desired reward that prior to SB was its own separate questline a resounding victory for Bozja's content design? If it can't stand on its own without the relic tied to it, then how is it any better than this expansion's Variant and Criterion?

[Supersnow845]

How is being propped up by a highly desired reward that prior to SB was its own separate questline a resounding victory for Bozja's content design? If it can't stand on its own without the relic tied to it, then how is it any better than this expansion's Variant and Criterion?

Because having the relic included is contributing to its success. The fact that it’s not like current variant shows that tying relics to it is the right design because it gives the content massive engagement

I’m not saying bozja’s actual design (as in content structure) is the success I’m saying its reward structure is the success

People on here are both saying “bozja is dead” then also asking them to rip one of bozja’s biggest rewards out of its reward structure and acting like that is a good plan

[TaleraRistain]

Because having the relic included is contributing to its success. The fact that it’s not like current variant shows that tying relics to it is the right design because it gives the content massive engagement

I’m not saying bozja’s actual design (as in content structure) is the success I’m saying its reward structure is the success

People on here are both saying “bozja is dead” then also asking them to rip one of bozja’s biggest rewards out of its reward structure and acting like that is a good plan

It's not a reward exclusive to Bozja, though. The relic was only tied to exploratory zones in later expansions. It was originally its own questline and reward for that questline. So in a sense that reward is kind of borrowed glory.

If what you're saying is that Bozja's content sucks so badly that it needs a relic, then should they really make more of it? Shouldn't they aim at making content that is going to be fun and engaging and that players want to do and keep going back into, instead of having players push themselves through it and then abandon it when they get what they want so players after them have a hard time?

I bet people would constantly be in Variant if they propped it up with a relic in the same way.

[Supersnow845]

It's not a reward exclusive to Bozja, though. The relic was only tied to exploratory zones in later expansions. It was originally its own questline and reward for that questline. So in a sense that reward is kind of borrowed glory.

If what you're saying is that Bozja's content sucks so badly that it needs a relic, then should they really make more of it? Shouldn't they aim at making content that is going to be fun and engaging and that players want to do and keep going back into, instead of having players push themselves through it and then abandon it when they get what they want so players after them have a hard time?

I bet people would constantly be in Variant if they propped it up with a relic in the same way.

Again your personal enjoyment of the content is irrelevant to this discussion, whether you think Bozja is bad or Bozja is good or variant is bad or variant is good it doesn’t change the stats, Bozja had high retention, variant has garbage retention; Bozja is the second grindiest core combat content in the game and it has interaction that exceed some roulette content

By every measure Bozja was an overwhelming success, part of that can be contributed to the inclusion of the relic, if they can generate that level of interaction via what Bozja already has plus the relic then what’s their incentive not to, yes they could have tied the relic to variant, they probably should have, variant isn’t bad content it’s just this “people will play for the sake of it if the content is fun” doesn’t exist in this game, people will only play when given rewards, and that’s why criterion failed

[MoofiaBossVal]

To me the Eureka weapons were the best. Seeing other people with a prestigious glowing weapon made me want to do Eureka too. I loved progressing through the four Eureka Zones to get my relic weapon, and that is how I would prefer to get future relic weapons.

I didn't like how Bozja was only two zones (also other issues like the aesthetics not being good for spending dozens to hundreds of hours grinding in), and how at certain points you couldn't continue progressing your relic weapon by playing Bozja. At a certain point, you are forced to leave Bozja and do the crappy experience of farming FATEs in Gyr Abania or Othard by yourself, or queue up for the Mhach or Ivalice raids I was already sick and tired of when I levelled alt jobs.

Endwalker having welfare relic weapons that require you to just watch a zany questline that has long outstayed its welcome and then pay up to tomestones to immediately get your weapon and everyone else has the same glowing weapons doesn't feel satisfying.

[Supersnow845]

If they were going to do it half half the step that is done outside of the zone should be one step behind but that would still impact the contents evergreen potential

So they release step 2 inside the field content zone and then step 1 gets the outside the field content option

[strawberrycake]

If they were going to do it half half the step that is done outside of the zone should be one step behind but that would still impact the contents evergreen potential

So they release step 2 inside the field content zone and then step 1 gets the outside the field content option

It's why you can just back end the alternative to the end of the expansion for players who can't be assed to grind in dedicated content and keep the in zone ever green thus making sure players can do it in new expansions either way and players during the expansion can't say they were forced to do something they dont like.

[Supersnow845]

It's why you can just back end the alternative to the end of the expansion for players who can't be assed to grind in dedicated content and keep the in zone ever green thus making sure players can do it in new expansions either way and players during the expansion can't say they were forced to do something they dont like.

That would work too, just dump the poetics option in 7.58 for people who dont care about the field content zone

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

If they ever want to make alternative way to grind relic, they better make it more efficient by engaging the field content than trying to farm some rando sh!t outside like they did to 3 colored memories in their inception.

[Bonoki]

Bozja just needs better accessibility but making it more accessible would remove some of its uniqueness that makes it more desirable. This ties into making it easier to get and therefore people feel that, is stripping it of the hard work earned.