I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Adding more to the point: there will always be some subset of players who just won't improve no matter what changes you do to the role. There's no point in making those healers 'heal better' because their next likely course of action is to quit the role instead of improving, something that's seen as a cardinal sin to the eyes of the job devs.

Coincidentally, these are also usually the same subset of players who don't even touch their dry, barebone today's dps spells. What makes you think having more of them suddenly mean they will start paying attention to these and forget about healing? The answer? They won't. They're already shaking to even press the proper healing button and you want to make lives harder for them?

[ty_taurus]

Adding more to the point: there will always be some subset of players who just won't improve no matter what changes you do to the role. There's no point in making those healers 'heal better' because their next likely course of action is to quit the role instead of improving, something that's seen as a cardinal sin to the eyes of the job devs.

Coincidentally, these are also usually the same subset of players who don't even touch their dry, barebone today's dps spells. What makes you think having more of them suddenly mean they will start paying attention to these and forget about healing? The answer? They won't. They're already shaking to even press the proper healing button and you want to make lives harder for them?

The "Shitter" player archetype (Misshapen Chair's description, not mine).

[Colt47]

I don't want to be a heal slave, I want to contribute to damage in significant ways no matter what role or job I am, and I want that damage contribution to be more complex and interesting.

I mean... is the "heal slave" thing a problem of the job, or the people that are running around getting hit by AOEs, get vuln stacks, and then fall over dead and complain about how we are not saving our instant cast for resurrecting them when they decided they would go kill themselves?

[Mithron]

I mean... is the "heal slave" thing a problem of the job, or the people that are running around getting hit by AOEs, get vuln stacks, and then fall over dead and complain about how we are not saving our instant cast for resurrecting them when they decided they would go kill themselves?

The "heal slave" concept is a job that does little to no DPS and instead only exists to support others. So this wold mean that you remove the Glare equivalents and Dia equivalents of every healer job and your only task is to sit there and heal people as needed, and/or increasing incoming damage so that you are healing more often than currently. I don't find this playstyle fun and never have since I started gaming in 1994, and was always a large criticism I had on early MMORPGs I played such as MapleStory and Ragnarok Online. I am of a strong proponent for every job contributing significantly to damage, no matter the role. I think the total amount of damage healers currently contribute is good, but rather than 50%~ of their GCDs being spent on a single button, I would like to see them press a variety of DPS buttons just like every other job in the other two roles do. I think it would also be beneficial for healers to have less healing based oGCDs and instead have more damage based oGCDs, just like tanks do.

I do not think this game could ever support a healing system where over 50% of the healer's GCDs being spent on healer actions that would be fun, especially in older content which is what the vast majority of this game is. This game is all about up time, down time, and burst windows. Healers need things to do between heals, which is why DPS is the natural fit. Having more complex DPS rotations and actions, and thus fewer healer oGCDs and GCDs, would make healers a lot more busy but also those fewer heal actions become infinitely more valuable and impactful. I think this would make a lot more of an interesting dynamic between healing and DPS than we have currently.

I'm also a big fan of HW Cleric Stance and still miss it to this day, because I felt like it provided very interesting DPS balance between heals and damage without needing many different damage buttons, though I doubt it will ever return. Cleric Stance dancing (and tank stance dancing with NIN Shadewalker and other non-tank jobs managing aggro) was some of the most fun I've ever had in any video game ever.

[ForsakenRoe]

Love typing a whole post debunking the strawman arguments, only for someone to waltz into the conversation and proudly declare 'don't care didn't read, plus ratio' and then immediately go to attack a strawman. And not just any strawman, no, it's the same strawman that's already been beaten to death. People suggest standalone GCDs for healers that work like Sonic Break, or Goring Blade (albeit with a shorter recast like 15s). People suggest shorter DOT durations, so they have to be refreshed more often. People suggest interactions between damage and healing, such as gauges that build from dealing damage, that can then be spent on new healing moves (ok this one is mostly me asking for it). And yet somehow, despite all of this, someone saunters in, completely confident in their take (misinformed as it may be), and hits us for the 5th time this week with 'OH SO YOU WANT 1-2-3 COMBOS ON HEALERS HOW'S THAT GONNA BE LESS BORING THAN 1-1-1?'

Really does feel like a ChatGPT situation

Based on this: https://youtu.be/kAbCjPPS1RQ?si=Kr_iJyIrsdisW9bv&t=165, 5.x was their attempt at increasing healing requirements to keep healers busy

Love this video, because it shows how little Yoshi-P actually understands healer gameplay.

'[Item Level increasing means more HP pool and more healing output]..., and there might be instances where people will have to insert some of the offensive moves, because it does get a little... not stagnant, but... 'you don't know what to do'.'

What offensive moves, you removed most of them. The only thing left to 'weave in' is Glare/Broil/the other two, or our mandated 'once per 30s' DOT which couldn't even be creative enough to have a different duration between the 4 healers. Seriously, FOUR classes and you're telling me nobody at SE could think 'hang on, what if one of them was a number that was not 30'? Also, no, they were right the first time with 'stagnant'.

Rant aside, he's right on one thing: Healing output, and it's difficulty, is intrinsically linked to our item levels, and the content difficulty. So, you cannot make a piece of content 'difficult to heal' and have it stay difficult to heal, unless you prevent Item Level from increasing (eg ultimates), or have the damage increase alongside the Item Level (eg %based damage like the raidwides from E1), which people don't usually take to, because it removes the feeling of 'getting stronger' from gearing. A fight can demand literal 100% uptime on healing from me for the first week of prog, but by the time I'm BIS I'll be spending some GCDs on damage, because what took me 100% GCD healing then would only take me say, 75% of my GCDs with more gear. And my reward for 'being better as a healer', the crux of the issue, is that I have to press Glare more often.

Oh, but apparently we all want 1-2-3 combos on healers (some might, I sure don't as they won't solve anything), or BLM/MNK optimization depth (I don't, as we won't have time to heal), and there's apparently no in-between, no middle ground. Just these two extremes. No, I've said what I'd be happy with. And what I've posted about would be one damage button, one shorter DOT, THREE new healing buttons (gauge spender, AOE lily shield, ST lily shield), a way to have our single target buttons (all three of them, Glare/Dia/the suggested Banish addition) find some use in AOE pulls (to make our AOE be more interesting than 'spam Holy'), and a vastly improved lower-level experience by bringing back some old skills (eg a lower level version of Misery, or Divine Seal upgrading into Temperance). Hilarious that I have asked for (on WHM) 'new buttons to play with, 75% of which is healing tools' and people are foamin' over the 25%. If they saw what I'd do to SGE or AST they'd probably have to go get checked out at A+E

[Aravell]

Really does feel like a ChatGPT situation

"Give me an argument to troll the FFXIV healer subforums with."

> Just play DPS!
> Why do you want a 1-2-3 combo? It's not different from 1-1-1!
> You want BLM complexity on a healer!?
> You don't actually want to be a healer!

[Sebazy]

Apparently this is peak gameplay design by the so called ffxiv forum/reddit "healer" community..
Since they don't complain about this .. they just complain about lack of dps rota, more dps abilties.. ect
(Read one and you have read them all)

I guess you're as bad at reading threads as you are spotting vuln stacks and incoming heals right?

I've been asking for things such as the return of things like boss melee crits, auto attacks through castbars and mini instacast tank busters on timers literally for years now. Want me to grab some logs for that too?

[Supersnow845]

I’ve spent the last 5 pages before this argument specifically asking for near every single heal button SCH has to be nerfed specifically so I would be forced to rely on succor more, use broil less and be more tactical with when you can ED

Are you guys like actually not reading our suggestions or are you reading them, deciding you don’t like our specific suggestions then strawmanning us

I’m genuinely curious, no other section of the forums has such a strong culture of “I read the threads up till now, that’s why I know you didn’t say (exactly what I said) you said (thing I didn’t say)”

[Niroken]

Love this video, because it shows how little Yoshi-P actually understands healer gameplay.

From what I gathered from the clip was:

-Healers have different opinions on how healers should work
-He want to make content that will require more healing but at the same time we don't want to increase the healing requirements much because potatoes
-He knows there is downtime with healers and during that downtime healers will use their DPS abilities
-If you want slightly more healer DPS, play Sage.

It was a masterclass in sidestepping the healer DPS complexity part of the question which to me shows that he does not want to increase damage skills AND he does not want to increase healing requirement to the levels where it would include more complexity. It sounds like he understands healer gameplay perfectly... it's just that he's not going to do anything about it.

[Supersnow845]

From what I gathered from the clip was:

-Healers have different opinions on how healers should work
-He want to make content that will require more healing but at the same time we don't want to increase the healing requirements much because potatoes
-He knows there is downtime with healers and during that downtime healers will use their DPS abilities
-If you want slightly more healer DPS, play Sage.

It was a masterclass in sidestepping the healer DPS complexity part of the question which to me shows that he does not want to increase damage skills AND he does not want to increase healing requirement to the levels where it would include more complexity. It sounds like he understands healer gameplay perfectly... it's just that he's not going to do anything about it.

That’s how I read the video

It basically sounds like a “we know the role sucks and honestly we don’t really care”