All The Doom Threads Are Strange To Me

[Erzaa]

What less content does Endwalker have? I've been reading for months about how Endwalker has less content, it even made me excited to be able to catch up when I saw that, but I just recently reached the patches and from what I see it's the same amount of content as any other expansion.

Shadowbringers didn't have a Deep Dungeon but had Bozja. Endwalker has Variant Dungeons and a Deep Dungeon but no Bozja/Eureka area, Island Sanctuary, and now we're getting a new Allied Tribes quest and Hildy's back, both of which were missing in Shadowbringers. Every other piece of content is the same. If anything, there's more content in Endwalker than there was in Shadowbringers, it's just less grindy.

[Saraide]

All the positive threads are strange to me because they somehow can never stand on their own, they always have to involve responding to the complainers.

[Supersnow845]

What less content does Endwalker have? I've been reading for months about how Endwalker has less content, it even made me excited to be able to catch up when I saw that, but I just recently reached the patches and from what I see it's the same amount of content as any other expansion.

Shadowbringers didn't have a Deep Dungeon but had Bozja. Endwalker has Variant Dungeons and a Deep Dungeon but no Bozja/Eureka area, Island Sanctuary, and now we're getting a new Allied Tribes quest and Hildy's back, both of which were missing in Shadowbringers. Every other piece of content is the same. If anything, there's more content in Endwalker than there was in Shadowbringers, it's just less grindy.

The point is volume and quality of content

Let’s say you have zero interest in any side grind for Bozja (notes, DRS, emblazoned etc) the time taken to get to the end of bozja’s story alone is more content than the entirety of EW’s patch content offers

[Jeeqbit]

All The Doom Threads Are Strange To Me

I know, right? They've been at it for years and the game has just grown in spite of them.

it just doesn't seem like a reasonable view of what is going on.

Statistics are the most objective thing we can look at and Lucky Bancho's active character stat is higher than in other expansions. That doesn't mean there isn't some sort of "doom" slowly materialising, but the stats aren't reflecting it yet and would most likely take a lot of time to do so because of the abundance of sprouts, and returners from the pool of 30 million adventurers.

Is this game perfect? No, of course not. But is it a grind-fest like WOW, where you literally can't stop playing if you want to stay relevant? No, and thank God for that.

It is refreshing when quests don't ask you to kill hundreds of enemies just to progress. That is what gets really tedious for me in other games. Traveling is tedious as well and we can just /teleport.

People claim the game has no content. I find that to be fundamentally untrue. I have been playing since the beta for 2.0, and I haven't done everything there is to do. Not on my main, and not on any of my alts. There may not be content you are interested in, but there is plenty of content.

This is so true.

People claim Endwalker, specifically, was limp on content.

There were people claiming that in prior expansions too (always saw claims Stormblood or Shadowbringers lacked content), but it seems more people have felt this is the case than in any prior expansion due to the lack of a field area.

I could agree that non-story content was somewhat lacking. Didn't bother me much because I play for the story and RP, not high end raiding, but to each their own.

Endwalker has objectively had more high-end raid content than in any other expansion, by far. 2 ultimates, 12 savages, 3 criterions, 7 extremes, a deep dungeon with 70 high-end floors. That is a lot. Bonus if you are into blue mage raiding because you can do the level 80 ones now.

People claim (and this was a weird one) that the keynote made them not want to play because it didn't reveal the story for Dawntrail.

It did reveal a lot, they just didn't put the pieces together.

We are likely going to explore why the city of gold is such a rumor instead of just a fact, which takes us to a place of illusion that powers itself by sapping up the aether in the north.

the team has never exactly been prone to spoiling storybeats

Not true, actually. They do spoil the next expansion's story, but only enough to get you excited. They save aspects of it so you can still enjoy it and be surprised. For example, they told us that in Shadowbringers you would learn the story of the "Warrior of Darkness" and go from area to area restoring darkness. It was pretty obvious, given that we have 5 dungeons and 3 trials, that we would restore the darkness by defeating dungeon bosses. So it virtually spoiled the whole thing. Then the launch trailer spoiled even more of it. But I still enjoyed it and there were still nuances that weren't spoiled and things like about Hades and the tempest weren't spoiled.

People claim that this is going to be a content-less 'anime island beach episode'

This is clearly not true. You can direct anyone to the Dawntrail media website to see screenshots of deserts and lands of technology and mountains.

[Mostly_Raxus]

There are achievements that give the same kinds of rewards as beasts tribes do, such as mounts, minions and titles.

so grinding 5000 hunt mobs is meaningful content but grinding 500 kills for a relic weapon isnt?
yeah sure there are rewards for grindy achievements, but are you saying that its healthy to have long form grindy content for the health of a MMORPG? or are you in agreeance with OP that every quest should be completed with no needed investment?
im saying we like having things to work towards, seeing zero eat a bean bun is not repeatable content of any meaningful merit.

[Banriikku]

Just to clarify certain "arguments" here:
Island Sanctuary was advertised as a chill side game-mode without pressure, in which you could use youre minions to chill.
Truth: It's a time gated chart-simulator with a lesser version of housing that needs 5 to 10 minutes A WEEK attention but you can "place" youre minions.

Criterion are advertised as "Random Dungeons" with diffrent paths and rewards and replay value.
Truth: A Series of short dungeons with diffrent rewards but only once and without any replay value.

Hildibrand is the only thing we got as advetised. But that kind of story and humor is an "acquired taste".

Deep Dungeon was advertised as the same as the other 2.
Truth: The Exp booster that the others have is gone and the reward is mostly RNG or tedious or in some cases both of the formentioned. Also after the first clear there is STILL no reason to replay it and for that reason falls under the "once done - gone" categorie. The other 2 have the value of "you can level jobs there" in the new one there is no need because all other options are easier, faster, do not need unlock if you follow the msq or any other measures of prep work worth mentioning.

EW is the "once done - gone" xpac. Grind is not bad - there is fun working towards something grind and chinese/korea "you will suffer (The Only Thing They Fear Is You starts playing) grind.

[Erzaa]

The point is volume and quality of content

Let’s say you have zero interest in any side grind for Bozja (notes, DRS, emblazoned etc) the time taken to get to the end of bozja’s story alone is more content than the entirety of EW’s patch content offers

Yes, and as someone who absolutely despised Bosja and Eureka, but suffered through them anyway, and love Deep Dungeons, I consider the quality this expansion superior. It is quality over quantity, I agree. I prefer a good story I can complete, chuckle, cry, finish it and the focus on stuff I can complete on my own time.

Bozja and Eureka are not quality in my opinion. They're months of grinding for what's essentially a glam, it's quantity, not quality. But I didn't come to the forums complaining constantly that they should be removed or that the game is devoid of content and dying, because it's not.

It may not be content others want to do, but that's a matter of personal opinion and I fully understand that. But, Endwalker doesn't have any content and the devs are lazy and the game is dying, is disingenuous.

People are well within their rights to come to the forums and complain and ask SE to add more Bozja/Eureka exploratory zones, but they should be honest about what they're complaining about. It's content they don't enjoy, don't want to do, or they're miffed because they binged in a week and it's not months of kill mob for currency or repeat FATEs and Notorious Monsters for some glamour item.

And I'm not saying Endwalker is by any means this perfect expansion. The story had pacing issues, the follow so and so quests were really annoying, bringing back the horse-nosed cockroach, the most boring, one-dimensional villain as the finale. But Pandemonium's story was great, even if all the fights before the last one were a bit easy, Variant dungeons are quite fun and relaxing, the Deep Dungeon grind to +99 is always fun for me, I'm looking forward to the Alliance Raids next, and Hildy (because I really enjoy screwball comedies), and overall, when they're all done, relaxing and just working on my little Island until the next expansion.

[Supersnow845]

Do people forget that Bozja added like what 45? Or so alliance raid quality bosses plus a side progression system deeper than anything 14 has ever offered in the main combat system

Like I’m genuinely confused when someone goes “I despised Bozja it had nothing I liked but I’m also excited for the next alliance raid”, what do you even like doing in an alliance raid in that case……..gposing in the Boses arena or something

Bozja gave us more bosses than all of the 3 variant dungeons put together AND an entire nother alliance raid series on top of that that had an alliance raid quality story, I think it’s hard to argue on the quality of Bozja even if you don’t like fate grinding

[Erzaa]

Do people forget that Bozja added like what 45? Or so alliance raid quality bosses

Like I’m genuinely confused when someone goes “I despised Bozja it had nothing I liked but I’m also excited for the next alliance raid”, what do you even like doing in an alliance raid in that case……..gposing in the Boses arena or something

Bozja gave us more bosses than all of the 3 variant dungeons put together AND an entire nother alliance raid series on top of that that had an alliance raid quality story, I think it’s hard to argue on the quality of Bozja even if you don’t like fate grinding

What 45 Alliance Raid bosses were added exactly? The raids were fun, I'll give you that, but Notorious Monsters are not fun past the third time. It's just a FATE with a stronger monster. That's it. But that's the same for any piece of content, what raid is still fun for the upteenth time? Even the best Alliance Raid in the game, Nier, becomes stale and boring, running it 40 odd times to get that one mage dress.

Perhaps you're into, do FATE 60 times and CE 30 times for those books, axles, crystals or whatever silly thing, but I wasn't. It was a drag, I hated every second of it. But I did it, and I didn't complain on the forums about, why must I do this?

[Supersnow845]

What 45 Alliance Raid bosses were added exactly? The raids were fun, I'll give you that, but Notorious Monsters are not fun past the third time. It's just a FATE with a stronger monster. That's it. But that's the same for any piece of content, what raid is still fun for the upteenth time? Even the best Alliance Raid in the game, Nier, becomes stale and boring, running it 40 odd times to get that one mage dress.

Every critical engagement is at the quality of an alliance raid boss

So you have

-30 unique critical engagements
-3(4) Boses from castrum (I won’t include Lyon as a seperate boss)(if the two first bosses count separately is debatable)
-4(6) bosses from DRN (dahu and ghost are debatable)
-4(5) Boses from dal (again debatable on the first split boss)

So 41 at the bottom end, 45 at the top end, I’m not even discussing fates here, I think people underestimate the complexity of bozja’s fates but I’m intentionally omitting them to prove a point, an alliance raid has 12 Boses, so Bozja functionally gave us 3.5 whole extra alliance raids, I cannot overstate how much extra casual content of undeniable quality (since a lot of it is modelled off the universally beloved ivalice) that is