(Large Housing Problem) 177 Bids on One House

[Impia]

Is it bad behavior? Yes.

I am trying to be dismissive? No.

Does trying to hold those players to account for their actions socially change anything for the rest of the player base? Also no. Even if every multiple house owner gave up all their houses except one, there are still not enough large and medium houses in the game for every player that wants a large or medium house.

I want those with the ability to fix the problem - the developers - to fix the problem. Society spends way too much time arguing about who is to blame and not enough time focused getting problems fixed. Let's fix things and in this situation, only the developers can do that.

Despite my impassioned ramblings I'm not calling for a witch hunt, but social consequences and cultural attitudes toward behavior do affect how much of that behavior we see even if it doesn't change the actions of specific individuals. I want the devs to fix it too, obviously, but the prevalence of the "we can't fault the players who do this, it's the devs's fault for making the system this way in the first place" is a fairly permissive one.

[Reinha]

It's amazing how many people love to comment like this on problems they are completely outside of.

We are ideologically opposed, there's no common ground here and no room for compromise. I do not believe multi-owners should be allowed to do what they do. It damages the entire community,

It's not that we're ideologically opposed, it's that you contradict yourself at every turn and can't decide if you should agree with me that some servers are not experiencing any kind of shortage due to multiowning.

So, as an EU player, am I outside the problem or not? If I am outside the problem, then it does not damage "the entire community" which I am a part of.

[Jojoya]

Despite my impassioned ramblings I'm not calling for a witch hunt, but social consequences and cultural attitudes toward behavior do affect how much of that behavior we see even if it doesn't change the actions of specific individuals. I want the devs to fix it too, obviously, but the prevalence of the "we can't fault the players who do this, it's the devs's fault for making the system this way in the first place" is a fairly permissive one.

Because the developers designed the system to permit multiple ownership despite not allocating sufficient resources for every player to participate and obtain the housing of their choice.

They could have designed the system to allow multiple ownership for ALL players as many other MMORPGs chose to do but didn't.

I doubt anyone purchased FFXIV because they wanted to be a test subject in a social engineering project revolving around housing. There shouldn't be any need for talk about "social consequences and cultural attitudes" when it comes to housing in a game. Social consequences are a discussion for content that require direct player to player interaction. Housing acquisition is between the player and the game, not the player and other players.

I'm not going to fault those who do what the game allows, even if I wish they would choose differently. I will fault the game developers who chose to create the problem in the first place when other games have shown it doesn't need to be a problem at all.

[Impia]

Because the developers designed the system to permit multiple ownership despite not allocating sufficient resources for every player to participate and obtain the housing of their choice.

They could have designed the system to allow multiple ownership for ALL players as many other MMORPGs chose to do but didn't.

I doubt anyone purchased FFXIV because they wanted to be a test subject in a social engineering project revolving around housing. There shouldn't be any need for talk about "social consequences and cultural attitudes" when it comes to housing in a game. Social consequences are a discussion for content that require direct player to player interaction. Housing acquisition is between the player and the game, not the player and other players.

I'm not going to fault those who do what the game allows, even if I wish they would choose differently. I will fault the game developers who chose to create the problem in the first place when other games have shown it doesn't need to be a problem at all.

Housing does not exist in a vacuum. Any situation in which a person's actions affect another is a social one. You're right in that greater change can only be enacted by SE, but individuals are accountable for their actions.

[Impia]

It's not that we're ideologically opposed, it's that you contradict yourself at every turn and can't decide if you should agree with me that some servers are not experiencing any kind of shortage due to multiowning.

So, as an EU player, am I outside the problem or not? If I am outside the problem, then it does not damage "the entire community" which I am a part of.

I think you've mistaken my meaning. You, as an individual, are unaffected by the problem. To the contrary you benefit from it, so you do not see it as a problem.

I don't really care how populated your server is, this is a fundamental problem with the system and there's every possibility that your server becomes more populated as soon as the next expac.

[Jojoya]

Housing does not exist in a vacuum. Any situation in which a person's actions affect another is a social one. You're right in that greater change can only be enacted by SE, but individuals are accountable for their actions.

What are they supposed to account for in this case when the only authority, Square Enix, has intentionally allowed multiple house ownership? By playing the game we agree to the rules that SE has created for it, including those for housing.

Harassing those who do what SE allows accomplishes nothing. You're more likely to get those who are being harassed to dig in their heels and take further advantage of what the game rules allow than to get them to change. No one is interested in being forced to give up what they've worked to gain. There are always going to be those who see themselves as separate from society and who will not respond to societal pressure. Trying to get them to change voluntarily is like banging your head against a brick wall.

Even if they do cooperate, it does not solve the underlying issues. The demand is for medium and large houses, and there simply are not enough to go around. Players also want the supply to be available on the worlds where they already play instead of having to move to where the supply exists. Unless SE has been overwhelmingly impressed with the cloud test and migrates existing worlds to the cloud, that's not likely to happen.

What is needed is a fundamental change to future housing development in the game. That has to come from SE.

[Eraden]

What are they supposed to account for in this case when the only authority, Square Enix, has intentionally allowed multiple house ownership? By playing the game we agree to the rules that SE has created for it, including those for housing.

Harassing those who do what SE allows accomplishes nothing. You're more likely to get those who are being harassed to dig in their heels and take further advantage of what the game rules allow than to get them to change. No one is interested in being forced to give up what they've worked to gain. There are always going to be those who see themselves as separate from society and who will not respond to societal pressure. Trying to get them to change voluntarily is like banging your head against a brick wall.

Even if they do cooperate, it does not solve the underlying issues. The demand is for medium and large houses, and there simply are not enough to go around. Players also want the supply to be available on the worlds where they already play instead of having to move to where the supply exists. Unless SE has been overwhelmingly impressed with the cloud test and migrates existing worlds to the cloud, that's not likely to happen.

What is needed is a fundamental change to future housing development in the game. That has to come from SE.

Mao sad. Jojoya keeps telling basic truths and peoples keep ignoring those truths. Lottery was never the problem. The problem always was demand outstripping supply. That supply is limited because of the housings system SE CHOSE. Many peoples here, including Jojoya, has offered suggestions on how to improve housings. So far SE nots so much as given peeps about thems suggestions. At this point, Mao thinkings best peoples can hopes for is more wards and maybe new city openings up with wards.

[SanadaX]

Supposedly they're working on a new system ("Housing Mirage") that would allow players to select the size of their house interior if they get it to work. That would help make the small plots more desirable if it happens.

Source is the live patch note reading for 6.5 but it's JP language only - the information was being shared by a few unofficial translations. Perhaps they'll share more info (or at least confirm what was said) at the EU FanFest this weekend.

This would be amazing. On the other hand. Homeowners stay winning. The "black market" for homes would go through the fucking roof for something like this implemented.

[Jojoya]

This would be amazing. On the other hand. Homeowners stay winning. The "black market" for homes would go through the fucking roof for something like this implemented.

Why do you think the black market would increase instead of decrease? It would make every house a large for the purposes of most players. Increase to supply equals less need to rely on illicit sources.

The black market no longer works for personal houses thanks to the lottery. It only works on FC houses since FC Master can be transferred after 30 days. Most players don't want to go the FC route to get a house for personal use.

Most multiple house owners also aren't after additional houses to decorate. They're after workshops for gil farming. A small interior works better for workshops - smaller plot/house means lower starting costs and the sooner the workshop will become profitable.

[MAJRIS]

Why do you think the black market would increase instead of decrease?

Because it will make every S equally valuable as M and L before.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ousing_market/