Disruptive Frontline Gameplay

[Mawlzy]

Can we do it? Yes, I suppose if I wanted to I could always organize my own premade with the friends I play with and repeat exactly the same as them. It doesn't take any kind of skill.

Would I want to? No, because I enjoy PvP, I like fair competition, and I like to see more new players joining us in these games.

Bingo! Instead we get many new players regarding the whole thing as a lottery in which they have no agency, and thus either quitting the mode, or perhaps worse never learning their jobs well nor contributing to their team because "what's the point?"

There are a couple of threads on Reddit in defense of Shatter, in which many self-confessed unstudied players note they like that map because at least they feel they are doing something by smashing ice (despite the fact they're really not). In other words, in the face of oppressive PvP from premades, they default to PvE.

I'd suggest anyone frustrated by "casuals" playing poorly might consider the possibility that, in many cases, this is a direct result of premades creating despondency.

[IDontPetLalas]

Bingo! Instead we get many new players regarding the whole thing as a lottery in which they have no agency, and thus either quitting the mode, or perhaps worse never learning their jobs well nor contributing to their team because "what's the point?"

There are a couple of threads on Reddit in defense of Shatter, in which many self-confessed unstudied players note they like that map because at least they feel they are doing something by smashing ice (despite the fact they're really not). In other words, in the face of oppressive PvP from premades, they default to PvE.

I'd suggest anyone frustrated by "casuals" playing poorly might consider the possibility that, in many cases, this is a direct result of premades creating despondency.

If there is a "bingo" moment here, a new player often has no agency because they don't understand how FL works, they have never PvPed at all (no situational awareness), or they have never even used their new skills or know other job PvP skills - there should be a mandatory tutorial to introduce them before FL can be joined
However- the actual alliance composition is RNG, and that is because this is not a PVP oriented game. This is not EvE, nor any number of other PvP oriented games of which I have played (I know Eve, but haven't played it). That doesn't mean that a relatively small number of players can't make a difference .


So is saying that "matches are supposed to be as balanced as possible" that's a worthy goal to aim for - however now you have a lot of factors to consider (1) the PvP design team, and the mode that they balance for - it is NOT Frontline. (2) Do they consider the presence of pre-mades to be an issue ? Past history says no- they would have to agree. (3) New players quitting the mode- from my own view, at even this late in the expansion- queues don't seem to be an issue- that's also based on the number of sprouts I see- BUT I would trust Square's metrics more than just my experience in queues.

In addition, I don't rely upon a few Reddit threads (which I also follow) to see whether there are "oppressive premades" - people often whack ice in Shatter for the same reason that they say "let them fight" in any FL mode, and in many (not all) cases because they think BH doesn't apply in Shatter.

Finally- given some of the endgame stats, I'm not going to blame premades "creating despondancy". Not when I see some players with practically no damage, assists or kills. If someone is that easily discouraged, perhaps they should ask for some tips, or try another mode, or try another job.

[Mawlzy]

In addition, I don't rely upon a few Reddit threads (which I also follow) to see whether there are "oppressive premades" - people often whack ice in Shatter for the same reason that they say "let them fight" in any FL mode, and in many (not all) cases because they think BH doesn't apply in Shatter.

I'm not relying on Reddit threads. I'm basing my suggestions on my own experience playing the mode, the comments in FL chat, and what is to me the blindingly-obvious fact that queue mixing is unfair to solo players. There are plenty of other reasons that FL is less than ideal and that players get hacked off. This is one with an ostensibly simple fix.

FWIW a few days ago on Aether during peak times, one of these oppressive premades and a flurry of negative comments in chat "coincided" with the queue time suddenly shifting from its usual 2-3 minutes to 9+. On the DC on which I play, premades are a problem.

You're quite correct to ask if a twin-queue is something SQEX would contemplate. Do we have any evidence they might? Say, a "ranked" 8v8v8 party-queue FL, and a "casual" 24v24v24 solo queue? This is exactly the sort of approach SQEX takes to keep its casual players, who pay the bills, engaged, while giving the more ambitious ones some tougher content.

FWIW if an 8v8v8 party queue mode was introduced, I'd immediately seek out a pseudo-static to join. I suspect it would be a ton of fun.

[IDontPetLalas]

I'm not relying on Reddit threads. I'm basing my suggestions on my own experience playing the mode, the comments in FL chat, and what is to me the blindingly-obvious fact that queue mixing is unfair to solo players. There are plenty of other reasons that FL is less than ideal and that players get hacked off. This is one with an ostensibly simple fix.

FWIW a few days ago on Aether during peak times, one of these oppressive premades and a flurry of negative comments in chat "coincided" with the queue time suddenly shifting from its usual 2-3 minutes to 9+. On the DC on which I play, premades are a problem.

You're quite correct to ask if a twin-queue is something SQEX would contemplate. Do we have any evidence they might? Say, a "ranked" 8v8v8 party-queue FL, and a "casual" 24v24v24 solo queue? This is exactly the sort of approach SQEX takes to keep its casual players, who pay the bills, engaged, while giving the more ambitious ones some tougher content.

FWIW if an 8v8v8 party queue mode was introduced, I'd immediately seek out a pseudo-static to join. I suspect it would be a ton of fun.

Would Square implement an 8x8x8 premade queue? I have no way of knowing that, personally as long as queues were acceptable I would be fine with it. You have your experience of some queues lengthening due to some people avoiding a premade, I'm not going to dispute that, personally I haven't had it happen, it may or may not have happened to other people. I have no idea - I can only speak for my own experience- and I haven't had an issue with pre-mades. That does not mean that I haven't lost to one. Those comments in chat comments in chat if they see a premade? I wonder how many of them are useful, and how many of them are from people who don't really try - like someone who commented recently at the start that if they saw "x" premade they were just going to run. You know, even if the odds are that you (group "you") are likely going to lose, if you at least try, you can improve. But if you quit like that- you can't even give yourself the chance to improve or try to have some fun. I find that rather sad.