This is the biggest reason why Tanks and Healers are designed to be braindead easy.

[Eraden]

Healers "braindead easy"? Mao thinkings this little bits hyperbole. Mao is mostly BLM buts Mao also does little bits WHM. Mao finds being WHM SO much harder than being BLM. Is has to watch for many things! Red puddles, Boss, all Group Mates healths and conditions. If things go South, also has to find right time and place to rez Group Mate. Mao thinkings Healers jobs not easy! Maybe peoples thinkings this so because thems experienced Healers and is used to the difficulty?

[Oizen]

High end content generally makes tanks and healers harder than dps.

Like god damn, I didnt realize how good dps players had it with these 30-40 second naps between mechanics where they dont have to do shit.

[Teno]

High end content generally makes tanks and healers harder than dps.

Like god damn, I didnt realize how good dps players had it with these 30-40 second naps between mechanics where they dont have to do shit.

Very bad take. Healers literally push one button the whole fight, and after a few pulls you know exactly the cadence at which you press an ogcd.

[IDontPetLalas]

Healers "braindead easy"? Mao thinkings this little bits hyperbole. Mao is mostly BLM buts Mao also does little bits WHM. Mao finds being WHM SO much harder than being BLM. Is has to watch for many things! Red puddles, Boss, all Group Mates healths and conditions. If things go South, also has to find right time and place to rez Group Mate. Mao thinkings Healers jobs not easy! Maybe peoples thinkings this so because thems experienced Healers and is used to the difficulty?

You just answered yourself. Sure, if you just heal once in a while, it could be challenging, which is fine by me. If you're a healer main, one that has been doing most content? No I don't expect that you would it so - mind you "braindead easy" can always change if your party isn't up to the task

[OgruMogru]

Healers "braindead easy"? Mao thinkings this little bits hyperbole. Mao is mostly BLM buts Mao also does little bits WHM. Mao finds being WHM SO much harder than being BLM. Is has to watch for many things! Red puddles, Boss, all Group Mates healths and conditions. If things go South, also has to find right time and place to rez Group Mate. Mao thinkings Healers jobs not easy! Maybe peoples thinkings this so because thems experienced Healers and is used to the difficulty?

I feel like maybe the problem is healers have been made too easy for people that enjoy healing but they're still challenging/maybe overwhelming for non-healer mains. Especially considering a lot of levelling content for healers is more demanding than when they have their full kit. I'm a bad bad bad terrible healer but that's a me thing and I'm just incompatible with role but I feel like the healer role shouldn't be catered towards people like me over the people that actually enjoy the role. I suppose it's an inherent problem with the idea that we can do everything on one character because the truth is not all of us will be able to do everything regardless of if we have access to it. Lots of people say the same thing about Blm even though you and I might feel waaaay more comfortable with the kabooms. I'd be just as upset as they are if they tried to make Blm appeal to everyone by idk removing AF timers or making all of our casts instant. This is the thing I feel like the changes to healer since say SB have been made with non-healers in mind and this is why actual healers are bored/dissatisfied and they end up calling all the changes braindead because there's been nothing added -for them- for like......years at this point

[ThaCa]

Tanks have lost so much responsibility over time, very little boss positioning with the teleports to middle, practically no threat management outside of swap for buster. They are just DPS who occasionally press some AoE mitigation with vastly more boring kits than DPS.

Healers rely entirely on how well the group performs, the less mistakes people make the more you can autopilot and press your basic attack since there's nothing else to do. Instead of trying to keep tanks up like in more traditional RPGs you are glorified babysitter who browses phone until hell breaks loose, if it ever will.

They are trying to get more people to play these roles while making them more and more powerful yet somehow also more boring. It says quite a lot when they are more fun to play in PvP than in PvE.

[Oizen]

Very bad take. Healers literally push one button the whole fight, and after a few pulls you know exactly the cadence at which you press an ogcd.

So you're saying a fight is easier when you've run it before and you know how your buttons line up to it? Damn bro, I'm blown away by that as if thats somehow not true for DPS or Tank.

[Renathras]

Because we're all bored at this point,...

Load up the video.
Pause immediately.
Read the chat.

Someone made a good comment basically pointing out the SMN is in the wrong. It seems he was running ahead, face pulling stuff, then complaining the Tank wasn't pulling it off him, didn't realize the Tank was a sprout, started calling everyone names, insisting people were "griefing" him when it sounds like he was the one griefing the party, and conducted himself as a total butt.

And good god, I've never watched a Xeno video before. He has some amazingly bad takes! It's...kind of impressive, honestly HOW BAD his takes are. I need some popcorn. His takes are kind of like a train crash - horrible, yet you can't look away.

EDIT:

On the other hand, now I know what this Cole Evyx video was about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHIYr3Hwmq8

...and the dude has a WAY better take. Basically: If you run into people that you don't get along with, just minimize your time with them. Like an NPC that talks too much and you just want to get the quest done. Treat RL/games the same way. Don't be a Karen, just finish the encounter and move on in life, or if it's too much for you to take, drop party.

As Cole gives in his example, if you're at the pharmacist, and they're being kind of a dick...just go with it, get your medicine, say thank you, and leave the crazy person to their devices; don't be their Jiminey Cricket. Just be polite, and if someone isn't listening to your "advice", zip it. Unsolicited advice isn't constructive, it's rude. And if the situation's bad enough, just leave the party.

Yes, they do. It is all about how you word it. It is definitely harassment to try to tell another player what to do. You can make a polite suggestion such as "if you use total eclipse, you can make all of the enemies attack you in one hit ", but saying "do this, now" is an order and saying "you're bad for not doing that" is rude and is harassment.

Also: ALL of this.

I've given advice to people in dungeon runs before, and never once been called names, had people quit, get a vote kick, etc. Because I'm always really polite about it, and phrase it as a suggestion. It's extremely telling to me that the people posting these kinds of stories always leave out the part where they were "offering advice", or we only get a little clipped portion of it, and it's never polite.

As you say, "You should have an ability called 'Total Eclipse'. It hits everything in a circle around you, so when there are lots of enemies, you can run to the middle of them and use that over and over and it will let you attack them all down easily." That's polite, it's advice, it's a suggestion, it's not a command, and it's not rude.

When people post these things, they tend to not be that. It tends to be an order, or belittling, and often they will immediately attack people if anyone else in the party calls them out for being rude or if the person doesn't listen to what they say. That's not advice, that's harassment.

Meanwhile, I ran a dungeon once as the Tank with three sprouts and in the 30 min run taught them how to use DoTs and what DoTs were (SMN, BRD, and SCH back in HW), as well as Cleric Stance. I got 3 comms for that run, not one person told me I didn't play their sub, no posts were made on Reddit, and there was no YouTube and forum drama. And that's hardly the only time I've explained things to people and taught them some useful information about their Job. Most people do want to improve - not be Ultimate raiders, but be decent - but if folks are being rude to them, it doesn't go well. And if you were running ahead pulling stuff instead of letting the newbie Tank first time dungeon guy do it, you need to check yourself.

This right here. Nobody would play that bad unless they are trolling. Doing your AOE is in hall of novice. THIS HAPPENED IN THE LATEST ENDGAME DUNGEON. Clearly a troll

Actually, I'm curious: Do we have any stats on how many people actually HAVE done hall of the novice?

[OgruMogru]

Load up the video.
Pause immediately.
Read the chat.

Someone made a good comment basically pointing out the SMN is in the wrong. It seems he was running ahead, face pulling stuff, then complaining the Tank wasn't pulling it off him, didn't realize the Tank was a sprout, started calling everyone names, insisting people were "griefing" him when it sounds like he was the one griefing the party, and conducted himself as a total butt.

And good god, I've never watched a Xeno video before. He has some amazingly bad takes! It's...kind of impressive, honestly HOW BAD his takes are. I need some popcorn. His takes are kind of like a train crash - horrible, yet you can't look away.

Not being antagonistic by correcting you, but I'm pretty sure the tank wasn't aoeing so smn was always going to rip aggro when the tank isn't doing their aoe to get aggro on the mobs. They just plunged in and went straight into single target.

[Renathras]

Not being antagonistic by correcting you, but I'm pretty sure the tank wasn't aoeing so smn was always going to rip aggro when the tank isn't doing their aoe to get aggro on the mobs. They just plunged in and went straight into single target.

It's possible, but when the SAM said he was "running ahead", that kind of implies he's moving ahead of the group and pulling things. Some DPSers feel that's their right, if not responsibility (the people who reject "you spank it you tank it" and think everyone else in the party is their slave and that they, alone, get to call the shots for the party's pace, size of pulls, etc). Note that the SMN didn't deny he was doing so. He instead said that it didn't matter. I think that's also where the "stop running" comment came from, that either the SMN was running ahead of the group or the SMN was getting agro then running all over the place, preventing the Tank from pulling off of them.

If I'm in a group and the Tank isn't AOEing...I don't AOE. But that aside, I also don't run ahead and pull things, then complain that the Tank didn't get them off me. It sounds like that's what was happening here.

Now, there is an issue in that so many attacks do AOE now (like all of SMN's summons do) and so can't be avoided, but that's also true of Tank abilities like Circle of Scorn or Double Down. So even doing their single target rotations, Tanks should be pulling agro in their radius, right? Unless the DPSer is running off and then running around and not going to the Tank.

We'd need to see the video, and we'd also need to see the Tank's side (if they are a really new player, they may legitimately not know or have realized rotations). Instead, we're getting a snapshot from one person's side who is trying to belittle and publicly shame other people. I'm always VERY cautious when I see only one person's side of ANY story.

As Cole Evyx points out, this is probably not a clear cut case of griefing.

Wait... the tanks first name was Ren?!

Is this the ultimate plot twist before us?

lol, thought that myself at first. Sorry, but no. I don't Tank random stuff anymore, and I use AOE rotations - they're easier than single-target anyway.