How would you solve the boring "damage rotation" of the healers?

[Renathras]

Actually, question:

What do you guys think the Devs will do with Healers in DT as of the way things stand right now?

Is something like "main spam attack upgrade (mostly visual, minor potency bump), aoe attack upgrade (mostly visual, minor potency bump), possibly DoT upgrade (mostly visual, minor potency bump), something in their kit gets a second charge, some new healing oGCD" a pretty reasonable assumption?

[AmiableApkallu]

Actually, question:

What do you guys think the Devs will do with Healers in DT as of the way things stand right now?

Is something like "main spam attack upgrade (mostly visual, minor potency bump), aoe attack upgrade (mostly visual, minor potency bump), possibly DoT upgrade (mostly visual, minor potency bump), something in their kit gets a second charge, some new healing oGCD" a pretty reasonable assumption?

Previously: Dawntrail Healer Change Predictions.

Some folks also addressed this in another thread.

[Renathras]

Hot take:

Hot take: More DPS buttons on healers has no place. Period. Full stop.

It's irrelevant - some people do like it. That is relevant. (Also, most people DO say they want to replace the downtime with more healing - and are promptly told that's impossible, trying to get them to agree to more DPS instead. If the option is "more DPS" or "more healing", I choose more healing. If the option is "more DPS" or "nothing/keep things as they are", I choose nothing.)

Previously: Dawntrail Healer Change Predictions.

Some folks also addressed this in another thread.

So more or less agreement that the status quo is the baseline what we're getting? Hm...

[Saraide]

and are promptly told that's impossible

"2) Don't engage in hyperbole."

[Sebazy]

Actually, question:

What do you guys think the Devs will do with Healers in DT as of the way things stand right now?

Is something like "main spam attack upgrade (mostly visual, minor potency bump), aoe attack upgrade (mostly visual, minor potency bump), possibly DoT upgrade (mostly visual, minor potency bump), something in their kit gets a second charge, some new healing oGCD" a pretty reasonable assumption?

Pretty much, I'm fully expecting DT to be patch 5.11 or thereabouts, still sticking firmly to the foundations laid by Shadowbringers. SE's bean counters certainly aren't going anywhere, thus I suspect it'll take a change of guard at the top of CBU3 to get any real shifts at this stage. The development direction is supremely cautious and risk averse. Big sweeping role changes are risky, thus as much as I want to see a big change, I don't think we're going to get it until the game eventually has a pretty significant crash in player subscriptions. Even then I suspect it'll follow FFXI's template of more and more focus on NPC parties to do 'group' content rather than a significant attempt to revitalise gameplay, thus the groundwork we see being laid these last few years.

(Also, most people DO say they want to replace the downtime with more healing - and are promptly told that's impossible

That's not a fair comment at all and you *should* know that. Of course it's possible to replace the downtime with more healing. But tell me, how does that work in solo duties? How does that work in more casual endgame content like the current Alliance raids? How does that work in intermissions in high end content? How does that work in puzzles such as Rubicant? How does that work when I'm duoing maps with a friend?

Are you telling me that an Agitated Apkallu should see me coming and start busting out the Harrowing Hells so I have something to do? Is that comment truly hyperbolic given that a less drastic increase in damage taken is likely going to have me dropping an Asylum etc and pretty much continuing the Glarespam as normal?

A significant enough increase in healing pressure to make an actual impact in something like an Alliance raid is going to cause problems for less skilled players. We've seen this with bosses like Thunder God Cid where more casual healers would get overwhelmed with the combination of movement, cleansing and healing often resulting in unfortunate vote abandons etc rather than working at it and trying to improve to get the clear.

A significant enough increase in damage complexity is going to make next to no difference in the same context. The same struggling player may do less damage overall (And that's assuming they were even doing decent damage with existing kits which most certainly isn't a given) but what exactly is that going to impact here?

[ty_taurus]

A significant enough increase in damage complexity is going to make next to no difference in the same context. The same struggling player may do less damage overall (And that's assuming they were even doing decent damage with existing kits which most certainly isn't a given) but what exactly is that going to impact here?

Again, discussion about the ability for one to clear content is missing the point of his argument. Regardless of how significant or insignificant any added DPS abilities may be to a person's ability to clear, the issue is that if every healer has this new series of attacks to work with, a player who engages with that new series of attacks is going to be a "better player" than someone who doesn't perform that added depth optimally, or chooses to abstain from it. The only way you're going to convince him to accept some form of added DPS variety to White Mage (or whichever healer is selected to be the "simple healer") is if that added depth is exactly as strong as DoT + Glarespam, or is weaker than DoT + Glarespam. Because that way, the "playstyle" of wanting to perform as effectively as a master without any of the training or practice of a master is preserved.

[AmiableApkallu]

Also, most people DO say they want to replace the downtime with more healing - and are promptly told that's impossible, trying to get them to agree to more DPS instead.

In the great Wikipedia tradition: [Citation needed]

What's claimed -- or what I personally believe, anyway (if I don't want to speak for others without citing them) -- to be "impossible" is replacing ALL downtime, or nearly all downtime, with healing. And I've yet to see anyone demonstrate otherwise in the context of FFXIV.

There is most definitely room to replace some downtime with more healing. I think ty_taurus has a great graphic that depicts the current situation.

[ty_taurus]

Also, most people DO say they want to replace the downtime with more healing - and are promptly told that's impossible, trying to get them to agree to more DPS instead. If the option is "more DPS" or "more healing", I choose more healing. If the option is "more DPS" or "nothing/keep things as they are", I choose nothing.

You're misconstruing the situation here. It's fairly well recognized that there is a problem with healer gameplay right now, only how severe of a problem that is does vary between the people you ask. Wanting more variety in healer DPS gameplay is a criticism that has been prominent in forum discussion since particularly Shadowbringers, and a common retort to that criticism is "why add more DPS when you can just make healers heal more?" And that sounds like it makes sense, because wouldn't you want healers to heal more frequently?

The problem with that retort, though, is that in order for the amount of healing alone to satisfy the people who have an issue with healer design currently would require that all content, including things meant to be easy and simple, would need an astronomical increase to the frequency of outgoing damage and a dramatic rework of how healing kits work, and those of us who are very experienced healers who feel the pains of a boring DPS rotation recognize that the volume of healing we would need to make the one-button DPS structure no longer a pain point would require such an extreme increase in outgoing damage, that it would make the role unplayable for the average healer who currently struggles with content like Barb EX. It has been said multiple times at this point, which makes me confused as to why this is still being misunderstood, but I have not, nor have I seen anyone in the pro-DPS camp say that healing requirements cannot increase at all. Rather, what has been said is that they cannot be increased enough for us to be engaged in the healing role from the healing alone.

It would be great to see some increase to healing requirements and a return to an environment where healer gameplay more often involves utilizing healing GCDs rather than only relying on, or almost entirely relying on healing OGCDs. But we still would require an expansion of DPS tools in order to find the healer role sufficient. Just making healers heal slightly more often will only scratch the surface of the issue unless taken to such an extreme that the current healer population will crumble.