Dark Knight Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

At this point you might as well just say that Stormblood Dark Arts spam was only underwhelming because the damage you dealt from it was not meaningful enough

No, our opener feeling crowded or not is just a matter of whether one even has time to hit any utility or defensive actions across that period and how low a ping is required to get one's burst actions out within raid buffs.

That's not a matter of tuning. That's a matter of concentration of obligatory casts.

[DRKoftheAzure]

No, our opener feeling crowded or not is just a matter of whether one even has time to hit any utility or defensive actions across that period and how low a ping is required to get one's burst actions out within raid buffs.

That's not a matter of tuning. That's a matter of concentration of obligatory casts.

And you wonder why I want to turn most of Dark Knights oGCDs into GCDs, because of EXACTLY what you JUST SAID.

[Shurrikhan]

And you wonder why I want to turn most of Dark Knights oGCDs into GCDs, because of EXACTLY what you JUST SAID.

Again, as I just said: That does not require turning oGCDs into GCDs. It solely requires moving when those oGCDs can be cast. That's it.

oGCDs in themselves are not a problem. Being obliged to unload 16 offensive oGCDs within 8 GCDs, leaving zero defensive/utility weave space without an early TBN and prepop BW to make room, is the only problem.

We normally want at least 2 free spaces within our 2-minute bursts so we can still function as a tank despite those bursts. That requires only attaching an MP cost to Shadowbringer, reducing the number of oGCDs within the 2-minute burst by 2, and the compensation due for that change (either increasing MP generation by roughly 3k mp/min to retain the same apm or increasing Shadowbringer's ST potency by Edge's and AoE potency by Flood's and letting that reduce DRK apm by 1).

I'd be find with periods of occasional shorter GCDs as we used to have under Blood Weapon (but, ideally, intensified), but that does not have to come at cost to the majority of our offensive oGCD casts, nor should that be --as you've suggested thus far-- a permanent 15-25% speed boost.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Again, as I just said: That does not require turning oGCDs into GCDs. It solely requires moving when those oGCDs can be cast. That's it.

oGCDs in themselves are not a problem. Being obliged to unload 16 offensive oGCDs within 8 GCDs, leaving zero defensive/utility weave space without an early TBN and prepop BW to make room, is the only problem.

We normally want at least 2 free spaces within our 2-minute bursts so we can still function as a tank despite those bursts. That requires only attaching an MP cost to Shadowbringer, reducing the number of oGCDs within the 2-minute burst by 2, and the compensation due for that change (either increasing MP generation by roughly 3k mp/min to retain the same apm or increasing Shadowbringer's ST potency by Edge's and AoE potency by Flood's and letting that reduce DRK apm by 1).

Fights that force kitchen sinking defensives only to force a tank swap anyway, ESPECIALLY during burst windows. How many more reasons do I need to give for Dark Knight needs a good chunk of their oGCDs into GCDs, before you're even satisfied...? Because every time there is discussion between you and me, you make VERY hard for me to side with your reasonings.

I'd be find with periods of occasional shorter GCDs as we used to have under Blood Weapon (but, ideally, intensified), but that does not have to come at cost to the majority of our offensive oGCD casts, nor should that be --as you've suggested thus far-- a permanent 15-25% speed boost.

Only on technicality would it be permanent, it's would still be a timer based maintenance buff... you also forgot 300 potency increase, AND the doubling and tripling potency, which yes does stack with the 300 potency increase... And I'm beginning to think you just hate tanks doing big damage in 1 hit like it was Black Mage or pre-nerfed Samurai...

[Oizen]

Fights that force kitchen sinking defensives only to force a tank swap anyway, ESPECIALLY during burst windows. How many more reasons do I need to give for Dark Knight needs a good chunk of their oGCDs into GCDs, before you're even satisfied...? Because every time there is discussion between you and me, you make VERY hard for me to side with your reasonings.

The reason to not do make DRK a gcd job is because its never been one and its focus on ogcds is one of the few surviving bits of its job flavor left.
Its mean to be high apm and have a focus on weaving both offensively and defensively, and its honestly pretty rewarding to pull off successfully. DRK is deceptively flexible with mitigations, and very good at just not taking damage. But its not as straight forward as pressing short mit + rampart. I think its completely fine as is.

You have mitigation tools that last long enough that you can pre-mit before a burst window starts and not think about it. If you absolutely NEED to triple weave or let something drift, just drop a plunge? Your damage will survive. As long as you're landing your big buttons in the burst window, and keeping Living Shadow out on CD, no one is going to care if you want to extra mit and take a slight damage loss.

I'd really rather not see more things be stripped off DRK for the sake of appealing to players who play other tank jobs, if you want a GCD centric tank, again we have WAR and we have PLD.
Its okay to not like a job, but expecting a distinguished job to completely rework itself just to appeal to you is pretty unrealistic.

[DRKoftheAzure]

The reason to not do make DRK a gcd job is because its never been one and its focus on ogcds is one of the few surviving bits of its job flavor left.
Its mean to be high apm and have a focus on weaving both offensively and defensively, and its honestly pretty rewarding to pull off successfully. DRK is deceptively flexible with mitigations, and very good at just not taking damage. But its not as straight forward as pressing short mit + rampart. I think its completely fine as is.

Heavensward Dark Knight and maybe Stormblood Dark Knight if we count enmity combos for a little extra credit.

I'd really rather not see more things be stripped off DRK for the sake of appealing to players who play other tank jobs, if you want a GCD centric tank, again we have WAR and we have PLD.

Again, all we need to do is look at Heavensward, which for ALL tanks, they were ALL GCD centric, Dark Knight had only had Low Blow which was VERY luck based with parry procs, Reprisal which was a parry proc, Plunge, Dark Passenger,Carve and Spit, and Salted Earth as oGCDs, Dark Arts enhanced certain GCD effects and/or potencies, maybe boosted the potency of Dark Passenger, Paladin had Circle of Scorn, Spirits within, and Shield Swipe which was a Block proc, Warrior had their own oGCD stun that did damage, and all tanks had Access to Warrior's Mercy Stroke. Dark Knight is only considered a oGCD centric job because of either Dark Arts spam, or Low Blow spam, or Edge/Flood spam, and Low Blow spam was balanced by the fact that it was RNG based, Dark Arts and Edge/Flood spam is boring, since you're not engaging with the GCD if the latter, or did not impact the GCD enough if the former, and 1-2-3 spam was always boring, just ask anyone who has played Paladin since ARR or even just picked up the game for the first time lately.

Its okay to not like a job, but expecting a distinguished job to completely rework itself just to appeal to you is pretty unrealistic.

That's devs job to rework it, I'm just giving feedback. And if suggestions for a Dark Knight Rework is unrealistic, then healers asking for more DPS buttons of some kind is also unrealistic, same with melee asking to bring back positionals, Astrologian cards being more than just damage up, Samurais aking for Hissatsu: Kaiten to come back, Dancer and Red Mage RNG to be more forgiving with procs, just go play any other job at that point and don't complain about it sucks to play. Because you might as well be saying all of that, and that is even more unrealistic, than me asking for Dark Knight rework to be good for once.