The "tenacity" Problem (other melds aswell)

[Rithy255]

I find it odd that everyone is saying 8% isnt a lot. Yet every other job is saying Oblation.. Is more mitigation then the self healing that other jobs have.

You guys are killing me. Yes 800 dmg off a 10k attack isnt a lot. 8% less damage in every dungeon pull I do, is a lot specially as a DRK player.

Oblation isn't a lot to be honest, the difference is you don't give up damage using oblation, theirs no cost with it so its always a upside. I actually think Oblation works better for raid mitigations because self healing isn't needed, IF autos hit harder and all that self sustain would actually be really helpful (a lot more then oblation, if you could still survive busters as DRK, which TBN/DM/Shadow wall all really good for kitchen sink design, you barely need oblation for that) but fights are just not designed like that currently.

8% passively means less if a tank already has tons of stronger mitigation skills for the most important mechs (tank busters) while autos are just a joke currently, you're never going to save healer gcds.

[MikoRemi]

Oblation isn't a lot to be honest, the difference is you don't give up damage using oblation, theirs no cost with it so its always a upside.

Just to roll off of this, at 917 tenacity you get about 2.7% damage and mitigation increase. Conversely at just 868 Direct Hit, you get a 13.5% chance to do 25% more damage which works well with Crit since they changed it awhile back to make DH work off of stuff like Infuriate and Inner Release. Also 1861 Determination gives you an innate 10.8% increase. Can ignore crit in this equation for now since its around 2.1k for me, but that's what people mean by Tenacity not scaling all that well. You'd have to sacrifice a whole lot of Crit/DH/Det to start stacking up Tenacity...just to reach 8%.

Also as Rithy pointed out, we already have such a strong kit with things like Rampart built into tanks innately. Damage is king, it's just tricky on improving Tenacity since the only way it could be good is if it did enough damage to replace one of the big three. I've seen all the Mastery talks on the thread but I doubt the devs will do it simply because people are already lazy about materia in general let alone caring about deep systems. The guard rails are unfortunately remaining up with just; "Use this for more damage lol". Personally though, I'd love for materia and substats in general to feel less tacked on.