What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Absimiliard]

I know it happened. But it's not clear whether it was an exact replication of what happened originally or a deviant timeline. As far as Emet "remedying the problem" I don't buy that. I think the entire point of it is that no matter what happens, our actions in the Elpis wouldn't change the course of history ie stop the final days from occurring. Hence why despite what Emet did, it still happened.

Nowhere in anything pertaining to Pandaemonium is it remotely implied there's a tangential timeline at play. Quite to the contrary; we are explicitly in the same Elpis for the portion of the story taking place there.

Now, here's a question:
If the WoL was unable to effect change in Elpis, how exactly is it they are directly responsible for morbols? And no, I'm not joking. That's a thing you can do while you're there, and the game makes it super apparent their continued existence in the modern world is entirely your fault. There's also the matter of the WoL having say in what traits behemoths have.

She did try and she failed.

The writers make it clear that she at no point divulged what she knew of Meteion or the world's future to her people.

I should also point out Emet-Selch only made it through the sundering intact because she intentionally left a crack in it with full expectation he would recognize it and save himself. This action was deliberately carried out with the intent of facilitating the timeline she'd had described to her by the Warrior of Light. Noting of course she possessed full knowledge of what Emet-Selch and his fellow Ascians would become in time, their objectives, and the untold deaths they would cause in the pursuit of those objectives.

[Turtledeluxe]

Nowhere in anything pertaining to Pandaemonium is it remotely implied there's a tangential timeline at play. Quite to the contrary; we are explicitly in the same Elpis for the portion of the story taking place there.

Now, here's a question:
If the WoL was unable to effect change in Elpis, how exactly is it they are directly responsible for morbols? And no, I'm not joking. That's a thing you can do while you're there, and the game makes it super apparent their continued existence in the modern world is entirely your fault. There's also the matter of the WoL having say in what traits behemoths have.



The writers make it clear that she at no point divulged what she knew of Meteion or the world's future to her people.

I should also point out Emet-Selch only made it through the sundering intact because she intentionally left a crack in it with full expectation he would recognize it and save himself. This action was deliberately carried out with the intent of facilitating the timeline she'd had described to her by the Warrior of Light. Noting of course she possessed full knowledge of what Emet-Selch and his fellow Ascians would become in time, their objectives, and the untold deaths they would cause in the pursuit of those objectives.

If our Elpis visit is what actually happened in the original time then I don't understand your original argument that Emet couldn't have gleaned our past from someone who saw us or the Aether. His memories were wiped and we are clearly a reincarnation but surely since it's so casual he could find it from some other subject or the Aether? And then what about everyone else who were investigating the final days? I've already asked why is Venat the single person who can solve the mystery? Bc you want to poke holes in EW or?

Her playing games with Emet doesn't prove anything. The point is she explicitly tells us she's going to bring people I to the fold and I assume she does (the Twelve??) but whatever she does fails because she can't stop the Zodiark solution...

Emet also says "our solutions would not have brought mankind this far". So Venat has those solutions because why???

[Xirean]

Just gonna throw out there that Venat directly shows the WoL how she could have shown the convocation what happened. By just going to the physical places where events occurred she can look into the past and bring others with the Echo with her into the vision. Theoretically, other convocation members could do this without her help, but the point stands that the solution is painted very clearly right in front of us as players.

Also just gotta say that Emet not caring to learn what he forgot seems rather out of character.

[Turtledeluxe]

Just gonna throw out there that Venat directly shows the WoL how she could have shown the convocation what happened. By just going to the physical places where events occurred she can look into the past and bring others with the Echo with her into the vision. Theoretically, other convocation members could do this without her help, but the point stands that the solution is painted very clearly right in front of us as players.

Also just gotta say that Emet not caring to learn what he forgot seems rather out of character.

Imo knowing what happened isn't the solution. The solution is having the technology and willpower, when people in the past lacked one or both.

[Xirean]

Imo knowing what happened isn't the solution. The solution is having the technology and willpower, when people in the past lacked one or both.

Hold up. They didn't have the information of exactly what was going on and still made a fully planned temporary solution that allowed the planet to survive for 12,000+ years in pieces; and you think they "lacked technology and willpower"?

That's a rather sizeable downplay there friend. Now imagine how much better their solution could have been if they actually had all the information from the start.

[Absimiliard]

If our Elpis visit is what actually happened in the original time then I don't understand your original argument that Emet couldn't have gleaned our past from someone who saw us or the Aether. His memories were wiped and we are clearly a reincarnation but surely since it's so casual he could find it from some other subject or the Aether? And then what about everyone else who were investigating the final days? I've already asked why is Venat the single person who can solve the mystery? Bc you want to poke holes in EW or?

Her playing games with Emet doesn't prove anything. The point is she explicitly tells us she's going to bring people I to the fold and I assume she does (the Twelve??) but whatever she does fails because she can't stop the Zodiark solution...

The WoL is a fragment of Azem, not a fragment of a different version of themselves from another timeline. The events of Elpis would not be present anywhere in their being if they themselves had not been there. It's as simple as that. "Our" WoL had no involvement with Elpis or its events until the exact moment they went there, not until.

The people investigating the Final Days were lacking a significant amount of information as to its true nature. They did not know about Meteion because Venat never told them. They completely misdiagnosed the problem in their ignorance, although they were fortunate enough for Hermes and his contemporaries to wind up arriving at a workable, if temporary solution in the form of Zodiark. Through Zodiark they managed to treat the symptoms even if the cause remained unknown.

Or were you meaning people in the modern era trying to understand it? If so, then that answer is a lot more simple. Setting aside how rare the Echo actually is, there's a limit on how far back you can look with it. Modern Echo-users, no matter how skilled, would never be able to look far enough back to glean even one iota of useful information about the Final Days from the world.

"Playing games" with Emet-Selch, as you put it, was a key part of ensuring the timeline she sought would come to pass. It was only through the presence of the Ascians things could play out in a manner necessary for events to unfold as they'd been foretold. And for Venat "bringing others into the fold?" That does not necessarily mean she's told them the truth of it, particularly since we're told outright she never did. She recruited followers, yes, but none of them understood what was really happening.

Oh, right, I almost forgot:
Why Venat? Because that's the story. The story presents us with a situation wherein the rest of her people proved insufficient at correctly diagnosing the Final Days in the time they had. We can speculate all we want about whether or not they might've been able to figure it out in the span of however many millennia Zodiark bought them, but that's not the story we've been given. The story we've been given leaves Venat holding all the cards. She knew the future, she knew the true nature of the Final Days, and she even new Meteion's location courtesy of having tagged her before she escaped Etheriys' atmosphere.

[Lunaxia]

I should also point out Emet-Selch only made it through the sundering intact because she intentionally left a crack in it with full expectation he would recognize it and save himself. This action was deliberately carried out with the intent of facilitating the timeline she'd had described to her by the Warrior of Light. Noting of course she possessed full knowledge of what Emet-Selch and his fellow Ascians would become in time, their objectives, and the untold deaths they would cause in the pursuit of those objectives.

This is another one of those plot points that seem even stranger looking back. How does one actually "escape" the Sundering or leave a "crack" in something so total and devastating? How does one know where to be or how to exploit such a weakness? How was there any time for him to do so? Were the Ancients even capable of leaving their bodies at that stage? Did Zodiark grant them that power? How do the devs' wrists not ache from all this handwaving? Mysteries abound.