Results -9 to 0 of 9557

Threaded View

  1. #11
    Player
    Absimiliard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    2,031
    Character
    Cassius Rex
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe View Post
    Yes it is technically true he could not viewed our memories because the trip had not yet happened yet. Are you happy? Please address the Venat plot hole.
    The Pandaemonium raid is canon. The post-Elpis visit indeed happened. Additionally, I would note you're under a bit of a misapprehension regarding whether or not the WoL could affect change during their initial visit. They were told by Elidibus they'd be little more than a shade and thus unable to affect things, but Emet-Selch remedied this problem. They were granted substance and presence, and so they gained the ability to interact with the world of the past in a way Elidibus had no way of knowing would occur. I also recall there being a warning they might not have a time to return to in the event they did somehow find a way to alter things.

    As for Venat; she could simply have chosen to try and save her people. Instead, she took to heart the future she'd been told about and decided she'd aim for it instead. The nature of this particular bootstrap paradox precludes the possibility of the WoL having any real choice in matters, but it does not strip agency from Venat. There were other options available to her. This is the crux of the matter. If she had agency, which as of current writing we know she did, then she chose to stay the course despite having been granted a complete picture of future events by the WoL. She had full foreknowledge of the suffering her decision would bring, of what the Ascians would ultimately become and do, and of just how horrible the sundered would be toward one another.

    For clarity: a bootstrap paradox is a situation wherein you've a repeating cycle sustained by time travel that has no defined beginning or end. Venat cannot know the WoL's specific future and thus decide to try and reach it without first being told it, and in turn the WoL would not exist, let alone travel back to Elpis, in the event Venat never gained this knowledge and thus enacted the sundering. You might also call this a predestination paradox. Where this differs from your typical example is one of the participants being allowed to maintain their agency, while the other is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979 View Post
    Actually no. It's been setup for awhile now that the echo let's you see a person's past. Although it's not easily controlled to allow you to do so. As far as it goes. Not use in clairvoyance of seeing ones future.
    I... didn't even remotely imply it can? The poster I was replying to was claiming the WoL's trip to Elips somehow meant Emet-Selch should've been able to see it in their aether when they met on the First, which makes no sense. They have since recanted that claim.
    (8)
    Last edited by Absimiliard; 10-15-2023 at 02:28 AM.