PL Woes

[Phobos]

That is a good summation of what's wrong with XIV. if "FF MMO's are more strategic and difficult" but you can kill 'endgame' content on your THIRD day.... something got broken somewhere along the line.... cuz that's just stupid fast.

Not really - this game has an easy learning curve for people who are used to FFXI, and used to MMO's with action bar systems. The rest is simply knowledge of content, particularly when it comes to ifrit. I'm not saying its not easy, I'm just saying the speed at which someone can get to the point where they can do something does not rely simply on their FFXIV playtime.

[Xoo]

That is a good summation of what's wrong with XIV. if "FF MMO's are more strategic and difficult" but you can kill 'endgame' content on your THIRD day.... something got broken somewhere along the line.... cuz that's just stupid fast.

This isn't an RPG, Peptaru. This is Street Fighter with timesinks.

[Lux_Rayna]

Frankly, no. That's where another problem collides. People needs to stop worrying about their E-Peen in general. Because the last time I did that, people were like "Oh, I know what to do, I've done Ifrit before" (A WHM, excuse you), and the idiot stood with the THM all the way in the back.



AllOfMyWhy.jpeg

Umm frankly yes. No it doesn't necessarily help, but as a pt leader its your job to at least *ask*. If you dont even do that much you're not even leading lol. You asked, so what if it failed. At least you asked and tried to do your job. Like I said you can't fix stupid. But there are times when you ask and someone will say "I dont know what im doing". That is where you find success. Its better to ask than to not ask at all and then complain about someone not knowing what they're doing.

[Peptaru]

Shin shoryuken never works when i'm on pgl/mnk.... I think my copy of XIV is bugged!

[Zumi]

That is a good summation of what's wrong with XIV. if "FF MMO's are more strategic and difficult" but you can kill 'endgame' content on your THIRD day.... something got broken somewhere along the line.... cuz that's just stupid fast.

Other MMO's make it mathematically impossible to kill some of the new end game bosses until you spent a few weeks farming gear to the point where your DPS is high enough to kill whatever it is. For the most part Final Fantasy has never done this. Which is why people can kill stuff on the first day its out. Gear progression does not matter that much in Final Fantasy games.

[Peptaru]

Not really - this game has an easy learning curve for people who are used to FFXI, and used to MMO's with action bar systems. The rest is simply knowledge of content, particularly when it comes to ifrit. I'm not saying its not easy, I'm just saying the speed at which someone can get to the point where they can do something does not rely simply on their FFXIV playtime.

If you call this an RPG of any kind there is NO WAY you should be doing, let alone making your own groups for, endgame content in three days. That is the issue, not his ability to learn or watch online videos for strategy.

You shouldn't be max level, have all your gear, -100 other things- within THREE DAYS OF STARTING.

[NoctisUmbra]

The point I'm getting at is that some players need a hard supplementation to their general lack of skill at the game. This battle system, which requires little more than, again, Curaga and Stoneskin along with the potential for entirely skipping mid-game content through the back-alley of PL teaches them little more than those few tactics which otherwise might not even need explaining at such a critical time as during a major battle.

Even then, if they are so bad at what they do, the community would collectively get to know them as sub-par through their mid-game and would have otherwise known what to expect. Something that is very hard to derive from a player whose necessary skills for survival are so limited as to 2-3 actions, given that they don't opt out of completely to be powerleveled.

I can agree with some players needing supplementary experience as opposed to others. The irony is, grinding those levels without getting PLed doesn't teach you something more profound than Cure, Cura, Curaga and Stoneskin.

Nothing teaches you endgame content performance, like endgame content.

Now if the game had more challenging content sprinkled throughout the lower levels that actually promoted learning, then I may be inclined to think differently. As it stands in XIV however, grinding in exp parties and getting PLed can be considered equally mindless.

[Xoo]

I can agree with some players needing supplementary experience as opposed to others. The irony is, grinding those levels without getting PLed doesn't teach you something more profound than Cure, Cura, Curaga and Stoneskin.

Nothing teaches you endgame content performance, like endgame content.

Now if the game had more challenging content sprinkled throughout the lower levels that actually promoted learning, then I may be inclined to think differently. As it stands in XIV however, grinding in exp parties and getting PLed can be considered equally mindless.

Of course it doesn't. The battle system is fucked.

[Phobos]

If you call this an RPG of any kind there is NO WAY you should be doing, let alone making your own groups for, endgame content in three days. That is the issue, not his ability to learn or watch online videos for strategy.

You shouldn't be max level, have all your gear, -100 other things- within THREE DAYS OF STARTING.

This is an RPG. I am using the role of my character to play this game.

The only reason the content is accessible to anyone that fresh right now is because gear doesn't matter, skill does. Most of the people posting on forums are of at least moderate intelligence since they've worked out how to log in to an online forum and read information posted there.

Right now, gear doesn't mean anything, and for what it does matter its very easy to get an acceptable level of gear with AF + purchased weapon.

Ifrit is a very difficult fight - when you have 7 other people with you that don't know what they're doing. A tank standing a few feet from the wrong spot, or someone ability locking themselves to death at a crucial point can make a run go sour very fast. The "problem" with the ifrit fight and many others in this game is that the number of runs needed to "cap out" is too massive. Couple this with the odd learning curve (steep to a point, but once you know the fight its a cakewalk) and you have people claiming it's easy. A lot of people fail to see that this was also the case with FFXI, I think it was just less noticeable because there were forced wait times for many events, and with HNM you usually had competition so that added to your excitement level (someone was waiting for you to fail).

Almost every FFXI HNM was boring after your first few fights - the part that kept it "fun" was the competition waiting for you to fail.
If you could spam some of the FFXI events where you get timed out for days, they would have been considered "easy" by the majority of the community in no time.

I'm kind of ranting here but I'm just saying - most of the reason these things are easy is because we have to get so good at them that we finish them fast enough to spam them to actually see some drops. The last time I had fun on Ifrit, for instance, was with a near loss. It's that feeling when it seems like you can't win, or if you lose something bad will happen (in FFXI - you would lose your claim, or precious time in a limited entry event). The problem is these elements are scarce here, because once you pass the rough part of the learning curve, the fights are simple to get through.

EDIT: I will say though - I'm pretty sure he didn't get PL'd and was 50 within 3 days... can't imagine someone who started and got PL'd..

Again though I think right now the game just has such an emphasis on skill instead of gear (as it should) and there are no mile-markers with gear where you need to get to a certain point to be able to do the next harder runs. Sometimes that can be bad, though, and I kind-of like how this game is now... I just wish the content didn't get so stale so fast with so few rewards. By the time you're bored with something you're lucky to have 1 item you want from it

[Peptaru]

Way to try to sound like you're right in your bolded comment at the top, but just no. I play a role in mass effect. I play a role in MvC. I play a role in every game I play. That isn't what makes an RPG an RPG.

As far as referencing XI. Nms/Hnms were hard for about 6 months, then anyone knew how to fight them. Same with sea mobs, sky mobs, etc. I'm not trying to debate this though, but saying RPGs don't put you into endgame in THREE DAYS.

Even staying within the franchise.... How long did the other FF games take? Pick your favorite, it doesn't matter which you choose. Games like morrowwind? EQ? Chrono-trigger? Even NWN and other D&D titles? Hell Diablo feels more like RPG than XIV when i see stuff like that.

There is a devotion of time inherent to RPGs that is a major draw of the genre. It always has been and always should be. It is about, to a vast majority i'm guessing, building and growing your character. Not simply rushing to endgame cuz its the "only fun part" as i've heard said before. I thought PL was awful in XI as it led to less skill among the player base.... now I see the PL from XIV and think "maybe it wasn't so bad in XI".

Repeating the same events over and over in XIV doesn't build ability. It just teaches the people who got PL'd how to do that one particular fight. It doesn't teach much about the overall game or how to play outside those fights.