PL Woes

[Xianghua]

Find that very hard to believe, but I suppose it's possible. However, we're not entertaining rarities here. Player incompetence due to being powerleveled is the subject. As well, somehow we got off on attacking the OP for being a bad leader, which he very well may have been, but as I say they are both at fault. Give credit where credit is due.

Correct both are at fault.

But blindly blaming PL when its not the problem is rather pointless. I know people who PL'd who are very good at that jobs. At the same time I know people who didn't PL who are horrible. When you go with a PUG there is always a chance that you will get at least 1 bad person. Try to teach them. If the refuse to learn. You've done what you can, kick/blist and leave them be. That's all you need to do. You don't need to blame PL, Obama, or anyone else but the player for not learning their role.

[Zaaku]

Find that very hard to believe, but I suppose it's possible. However, we're not entertaining rarities here. Player incompetence due to being powerleveled is the subject. As well, somehow we got off on attacking the OP for being a bad leader, which he very well may have been, but as I say they are both at fault. Give credit where credit is due.

Thanks... I think. I do agree with you though. A 75 Whm who didn't know Benny seems impossible. It took that players 3 solid MONTHS of playing 6 hours a day to reach his cap. I find it difficult to believe he was never called upon except that one moment at 75 to use it and only then realized it was in his abilities list. Even if that was the case that was exceedingly rare. Literally unheard of in my time in FFXI.

It is quite possible for someone who never touched the job until 40 to not have a bloody damn clue what they were doing even if they did cap. Which honestly you can go from 40-50 in 2 days anyways, so learning the job then is just plain utter ignorance. If you expect me to accept that everyone should have 2 days of 'training' after the PL rocket pocket parties and then determine if they are willing to learn how to get good then when even have levels at all?

Hell just let us all have 50's and you can pick a class whenever you log in. Apparently that is what PLers want anyways why not oblige them and toss the whole leveling thing completely. I cannot be bothered to put more then 10 hours of effort into attaining my cap lets play some of that awesome and fun end game! Surely those 6 events will never get boring day after day after day.

Leveling has to be a KEY component of the game experience. Hell I say the MOST important. In FFXI when you finally did cap you could have done end game. Many choose to simply level another job. Why would they do that?! It took them FOREVER to reach the max level. Who would ever doing something hard on purpose AGAIN? Because it was FUN. Was the battle mechanic inherietnly fun in and of itself? That is up for debate. Many will say it was just a long grind. Those people tended not to last long in the game. It was enjoyable because you got to feel yourself becoming more powerful. Take on more and more challenging foes and use new talents and abilities you've learn through dedication. It is the progressive feeling of becoming better and more able that drives you. A feeling that has been lost on todays generation. Hard work isn't something to run away from. Taking head on that which opposes you and overcoming it is what makes capping satisfying. Enriches the game play and your take home after you log off. Did I just spend 5 hours getting lost in Yuhtunga to join a PT which wiped 3 times and only got half a level today?


Yeah I did. I'm sure I can get that other half tomorrow... *happy sleep*

[Xoo]

Correct both are at fault.

But blindly blaming PL when its not the problem is rather pointless. I know people who PL'd who are very good at that jobs. At the same time I know people who didn't PL who are horrible. When you go with a PUG there is always a chance that you will get at least 1 bad person. Try to teach them. If the refuse to learn. You've done what you can, kick/blist and leave them be. That's all you need to do. You don't need to blame PL, Obama, or anyone else but the player for not learning their role.

The point I'm getting at is that some players need a hard supplementation to their general lack of skill at the game. This battle system, which requires little more than, again, Curaga and Stoneskin along with the potential for entirely skipping mid-game content through the back-alley of PL teaches them little more than those few tactics which otherwise might not even need explaining at such a critical time as during a major battle.

Even then, if they are so bad at what they do, the community would collectively get to know them as sub-par through their mid-game and would have otherwise known what to expect. Something that is very hard to derive from a player whose necessary skills for survival are so limited as to 2-3 actions, given that they don't opt out of completely to be powerleveled.

[Arcell]

Thanks... I think. I do agree with you though. A 75 Whm who didn't know Benny seems impossible. It took that players 3 solid MONTHS of playing 6 hours a day to reach his cap. I find it difficult to believe he was never called upon except that one moment at 75 to use it and only then realized it was in his abilities list. Even if that was the case that was exceedingly rare. Literally unheard of in my time in FFXI.

It is quite possible for someone who never touched the job until 40 to not have a bloody damn clue what they were doing even if they did cap. Which honestly you can go from 40-50 in 2 days anyways, so learning the job then is just plain utter ignorance. If you expect me to accept that everyone should have 2 days of 'training' after the PL rocket pocket parties and then determine if they are willing to learn how to get good then when even have levels at all?

Hell just let us all have 50's and you can pick a class whenever you log in. Apparently that is what PLers want anyways why not oblige them and toss the whole leveling thing completely. I cannot be bothered to put more then 10 hours of effort into attaining my cap lets play some of that awesome and fun end game! Surely those 6 events will never get boring day after day after day.

Leveling has to be a KEY component of the game experience. Hell I say the MOST important. In FFXI when you finally did cap you could have done end game. Many choose to simply level another job. Why would they do that?! It took them FOREVER to reach the max level. Who would ever doing something hard on purpose AGAIN? Because it was FUN. Was the battle mechanic inherietnly fun in and of itself? That is up for debate. Many will say it was just a long grind. Those people tended not to last long in the game. It was enjoyable because you got to feel yourself becoming more powerful. Take on more and more challenging foes and use new talents and abilities you've learn through dedication. It is the progressive feeling of becoming better and more able that drives you. A feeling that has been lost on todays generation. Hard work isn't something to run away from. Taking head on that which opposes you and overcoming it is what makes capping satisfying. Enriches the game play and your take home after you log off. Did I just spend 5 hours getting lost in Yuhtunga to join a PT which wiped 3 times and only got half a level today?


Yeah I did. I'm sure I can get that other half tomorrow... *happy sleep*

You can't just go and pull the "Why not just give us all everything right away!" hyperbole. That's simply not true and we all know it. Leveling was almost all the content in the game until recently. Given there are 7 classes to level combat-wise and after the first 2 it gets really boring. It's not like most games where you go through all that content ONCE to level a class to max. You go through it 7 times if you want all classes to cap. Maybe if the journey to 50 was actually interesting people wouldn't PL as much. The fact is that right now it's dead boring. Grind here, grind there, do a dungeon once, go grind in new spots, grind in more new spots, grind in Strongholds, 50! Grind could also be replaced with leves for similarly boring results.

Also comparing things to FFXI is pointless. FFXI at that point was a full game with no huge glaring issues and they had time to focus on content and the like. There's still not that much to do, especially while leveling because they are still fixing the game. Can you really blame some people for not wanting to do the same grind spots for every level range 7 times? Not to mention additional classes added in the future.

Hard work isn't lost on this generation but monotonous, painful grinds that only serve as timesinks might be. The borderline masochistic era of MMOs is long gone now. Things have been streamlined and improved. Leveling should be a journey sure, but it shouldn't be a bulk of the content.

Should leveling be slowed down a bit? Sure, especially the first 20 levels or so. That has little to do with PL since that's going to happen no matter what. If people can PL, people will PL. There's no way to stop it without restricting how legit players do things as well, hence the old claiming system which was awful.

[NoctisUmbra]

Some of the best players I have the pleasure of playing with right now were PLed. Even people who are PLed have to play in xp parties from 40-50 at least. Usually even earlier.

Whether one got PLed or grinded in xp parties does not correlate with how skilled they are at whatever job they have. In the end, besides various personal factors, what matters more is direct experience in endgame content playing that job.

Make sense please.

[Peptaru]

Hard work isn't lost on this generation but monotonous, painful grinds that only serve as timesinks might be. The borderline masochistic era of MMOs is long gone now. Things have been streamlined and improved. Leveling should be a journey sure, but it shouldn't be a bulk of the content.

All the endgame content is monotonous, painful grinding... people still do it, cuz they get shinies. People only want more power and they damn well want it very quickly. Step 2, sit in town saying the game is boring and you've nothing left to do.

[Xoo]

Some of the best players I have the pleasure of playing with right now were PLed. Even people who are PLed have to play in xp parties from 40-50 at least. Usually even earlier.

Whether one got PLed or grinded in xp parties does not correlate with how skilled they are at whatever job they have. In the end, besides various personal factors, what matters more is direct experience in endgame content playing that job.

Make sense please.

Read, please:

The point I'm getting at is that some players need a hard supplementation to their general lack of skill at the game. This battle system, which requires little more than, again, Curaga and Stoneskin along with the potential for entirely skipping mid-game content through the back-alley of PL teaches them little more than those few tactics which otherwise might not even need explaining at such a critical time as during a major battle.

Even then, if they are so bad at what they do, the community would collectively get to know them as sub-par through their mid-game and would have otherwise known what to expect. Something that is very hard to derive from a player whose necessary skills for survival are so limited as to 2-3 actions, given that they don't opt out of completely to be powerleveled.

[Xoo]

All the endgame content is monotonous, painful grinding... people still do it, cuz they get shinies. People only want more power and they damn well want it very quickly. Step 2, sit in town saying the game is boring and you've nothing left to do.

This as well. Why do you people even play this game if all you concede is boring, boring and even more boring...?!

[Phobos]

I'd just like to mention that this is definitely not the case for everyone you meet, and I think the correlation to PL'ing is a little off base. Some people just don't bother to seek out knowledge in any form and those are typically the people who cannot perform their jobs well. People who don't know how to tap the vast resources available to them from just asking the people they're partying with or browsing the lodestone information sections are most likely going to fail. Any time I don't know something, I'll ask those around me and also do some searches through lodestone and various fan-sites.

I knew plenty of people in XI who had a 75 and were complete morons and couldn't function on the job (pre-SMN/Abyssea burning). In fact, most of these people I knew only had one job capped, and couldn't do it well. I think because these FF MMO's are more strategic and difficult than most, some people end up at max level without really knowing how to perform their job well.

Also, just on the flip-side - One of the people I frequently do runs with in XIV was doing Ifrit 3 days after he started playing. He leveled LNC, unlocked DRG, actually researched the fight, and started making groups for it. This is one of the better players I play with. Time invested in the game does not = skill in the game. Skill = skill; someone who has greater knowledge and experience in other similar games is going to do better than someone who's first MMO is this. Even some people are just horrible... I hate to say that but it's true - some of my FFXI LS's had complete idiots that had been playing the game for years and seemed to be drunk whenever they played (though never really were).

[Peptaru]

That is a good summation of what's wrong with XIV. if "FF MMO's are more strategic and difficult" but you can kill 'endgame' content on your THIRD day.... something got broken somewhere along the line.... cuz that's just stupid fast.