I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[ForsakenRoe]

ren o'clock

I dunno, it's just stuff like this that throws me off when I'm trying to understand and propose compromises. It's hard to compromise with people who won't accept any actual compromises.


As I pointed out in that thread, while it's totally fine for some Jobs to have more, it stands to reason that some should have less, ideally at least one of each role. You are arguing taking the healer Job with the least, that has the average (over all Jobs in the game) number of buttons RIGHT NOW and that it should be given more buttons than even the most button Job in the game right now. WHM with 7 more would have 37, which is 3 more than PLD has right now. That seems pretty...not a good idea, I think..

The compromises were applied before I posted what I'd like to see for each healer, if I had started from the 'non-compromise position' as you claim me (and others) are doing now, you'd fall off your chair from how many more damage buttons I'd be asking for WHM to have

Can you tell me which Melee has a low skill floor, and little gap between it and the skill ceiling? Because I don't think any of them qualify for that, so evidently SE doesn't seem to believe that, at least for melee, the design of 'one job should have almost zero barrier to entry AND zero room for skill expression, such that even the lowest skilled player can potentially out-damage a tryhard because of crit variance'

In which case, WHM for example, with some smart consolidations, can have up to 7 'free spaces' to work with IIRC

'up to' does not mean 'will absolutely use'. I did say IIRC, so I'm not 100% sure on the current button count of the class, but if +7 would put it at 37, then it must be at 30 right now, which presumably also includes LB Potion and Sprint. If PLD is deemed to be 'functional' at 37 with those three included, then I don't know why WHM wouldn't also be deemed to be okay if it had 37 as well. I personally wouldn't give it +7, that's a bit excessive. I would give it +5 (Banish, AOE heal, AOE Lily shielder, ST Lily shielder, selfbuff CD). The space is there, is all I'm saying. SE would absolutely give it 37 though, think how many extra actions that are functionally duplicates of Cure 2 they could give the job if it was using 37 hotbar spaces! Also, I don't know if the 37 final total you listed takes into consideration the consolidations like Cure1>Cure2.

If hotbar space is really at such a massive premium, SE better stop adding garbage to oversaturate them. Like, delete Repose. Or delete Lucid Dreaming and make MP recovery a more involved part of the rotation, that'd be interesting (and maybe give value to Piety)

MCH is for Ranged players that don't want RNG. BRDs for those who like RNG and DoTs. DNC is for people that like what it offers.

As per my thread

WHM is for people who like bursty feeling damage tools, with more focus on short CDs (10-15s lengths)
SCH is for people who enjoy DOT juggling
AST is for people who prefer to contribute damage via buffing allies rather than direct damage
SGE is almost completely untouched damagewise (just a Toxicon rework), with it's complexity stemming from optimizing the damage>healing identity

I think I'm getting the hang of this '4 healers' thing

What?

No...? o.O

WHM is the easiest overall, AST is the easiest in terms of DPS, and SGE is easier to heal and dps with than SCH (though being debateably more complex on the damage side if you ignore Dissipation optimizing and Energy Drain, I suppose).

And you guys need to realize that not everyone is going to agree with you. This isn't the healer forum where angels fear to tread. You're seeing what more people think than just my lone voice against the echo chamber in there. More than just me believes that healers should be doing more healing and don't need more DPS buttons. Some few don't even think it needs work at all. The 4 Healers Model argument genuinely IS the middle ground allowing all to coexist.

After all the insistence that I'm wrong, and that 'not everyone experiences job complexities to be the same as how another experiences them', EG me thinking my WHM is simple, you thinking it's more complex than SMN... you then state that WHM is the easiest overall, very matter-of-factly, when someone asserts what the easiest healer is. WHM is as easy as AST is as easy as SCH is easy as SGE is as easy as... It's all down to the individual. I've also not disputed whether we should be doing more healing, but instead, disputed the claim that 'more healing' is the solution that will 'make healers fun again'. I'm alright with SE bumping EX roulette healing required by anything up to 100%, I'll be able to keep up. I did my time in the Living Liquid cagematch in TEA. Problem is, a lot of people wouldn't be able to keep up. Abyssos's jump in healing requirements showed this. When healing required suddenly jumps up, people get walled, disillusioned and quit the role. It'd have to be a gradual ramping up over multiple expansions, and at this point I'm not sure we have that kind of time available

You still dodged the 'how often should raidwides in EX roulette occur, and how much damage should they do' btw

EDIT: What, you want me to go to WaybackMachine and pull up and post all their abilities? How is that necessary? Who does that? You guys don't put nearly that much effort into your proposals and you expect them to be taken seriously. :ENDEDIT

Me. I do that. I check WaybackMachine for a lot of things, potencies, cast times, radius and range, MP costs and cooldowns. I do the research and homework, so that I can make my design the best version of itself, with the constraints it's forced into thanks to SE's paradigms. I regularly crossreference the job guide and the WaybackMachine page for the SB versions of the jobs for potency comparisons, MP cost changes over time, etc. Saying 'you don't put that much effort in' is quite an insult to anyone who posts any ideas, designs, proposals etc here

If you're just selfreporting that you don't put much effort in though, more power to you. Or less. I'm not sure at this point

You guys have already proposed the damage rotations. Why do I need to do so as well? Just take what you guys have proposed for SCH, AST, and SGE, leave WHM alone as it is today

If I went back and took out the Toxicon rework to my SGE design, it's damage rotation would be exactly the same as today. By this quoted line, this would qualify for your model (one healer, SGE, has it's damage rotation left as is). So assuming I were to
'compromise' on that (and consign Toxicon to be what it is now, scuffed Ruin 2), what'd be the issue?